When using the auto match system, the canadian overtime will allow 5 stones in 2:30 minutes. In my opinion this is not how you should use this system. The idea of canadian overtime is to give you some flexibility. If you have, let’s say, 5 minutes to play 15 stones, then you can spend 2 or 3 minutes reading a complicated sequence and compensate by playing faster before or after. If you manage your time properly, you can allow yourself several 2-3 minutes breaks to think. This is why tournaments using this overtime always allow a lot of stones and time (25 stones in 10 minutes on IGS, 30 stones in 10 minutes in some tournaments, etc).
However, with 5 stones in 2:30 minutes (normal speed), the entire point of this system falls apart. I might as well stick with the japanese byo yomi.
Hence I suggest to change the time setting when using canadian overtime with the automatch finder. If we want to stick to 30 seconds per move, then I’d suggest 10 stones in 5 minutes, at least, for normal speed games.
What do you think? Have OGS’s developpers any opinion on this?
11 Likes
I wasn’t aware this was the default Canadian overtime. I agree 5 stones per period is too short. If your want a similar pace to 30s byo you want a bit less than 30s on average because the surplus from the quick moves accumulates. 25 in 10 is good, it’s what the pandanet European team championship uses.
1 Like
_KoBa
July 15, 2023, 6:44pm
3
I also thought that the default option would have been higher, 5 stones in 2.5 mins doesnt really make much sense.
25 in 10 would prolly make more sense, i dont know how to change automatch defaults but its prolly not a big deal?
Wait do you even find anybody on automatch with this kind of time settings?
1 Like
they find people who have selected “no preference”.
1 Like
Never said it was a big issue, but that’s an easy thing to fix so we might as well.
_KoBa
July 15, 2023, 8:10pm
7
ah i meant that it probably doesnt require much coding to change those defaults. but im not actually sure because i dont actually know ~anything about programming xD
Maybe someone of the github gang can take a look at it…?
My bad I misunderstood your comment XD
People seem to be agreeing with you, I went to make this change, but since I don’t really know the details of how Canadian works, I got stuck.
I found this:
canadian: {
main_time: 10 * 60,
period_time: 180,
stones_per_period: 10,
stones_per_period_min: 1,
stones_per_period_max: 50,
pause_on_weekends: false,
},
which corresponds to what I see when I go to create a Canadian Live challenge:
… but doesn’t match the numbers you’re talking about.
So to save me actual thinking
Default automatch settings not custom game
2 Likes
Ah hah right… hmm that’s more tricky
1 Like
Yeah I had a quick look and couldn’t immediately see where those were defined
1 Like
Appended are the automatch default settings (or at least, this is the beginning of setting them).
What do you want them to say?
switch (speed) {
case "blitz":
time_control.pause_on_weekends = false;
switch (size) {
case "9x9":
time_control.initial_time = 20;
time_control.time_increment = 10;
time_control.max_time = 30;
time_control.main_time = 60;
time_control.period_time = system === "canadian" ? 30 : 10;
time_control.periods = 3;
time_control.stones_per_period = 3;
break;
case "13x13":
time_control.initial_time = 20;
time_control.time_increment = 10;
time_control.max_time = 30;
time_control.main_time = 60 * 3;
time_control.period_time = system === "canadian" ? 40 : 10;
time_control.periods = 4;
time_control.stones_per_period = 4;
break;
case "19x19":
time_control.initial_time = 30;
time_control.time_increment = 10;
time_control.max_time = 60;
time_control.main_time = 60 * 5;
time_control.period_time = system === "canadian" ? 50 : 10;
time_control.periods = 5;
time_control.stones_per_period = 5;
break;
}
break;
case "live":
time_control.pause_on_weekends = false;
switch (size) {
case "9x9":
time_control.initial_time = 180;
time_control.time_increment = 30;
time_control.max_time = 300;
time_control.main_time = 5 * 60;
time_control.period_time = system === "canadian" ? 30 * 5 : 30;
time_control.periods = 5;
time_control.stones_per_period = 5;
break;
case "13x13":
time_control.initial_time = 180;
time_control.time_increment = 30;
time_control.max_time = 300;
time_control.main_time = 10 * 60;
time_control.period_time = system === "canadian" ? 30 * 4 : 30;
time_control.periods = 4;
time_control.stones_per_period = 4;
break;
case "19x19":
time_control.initial_time = 180;
time_control.time_increment = 30;
time_control.max_time = 300;
time_control.main_time = 20 * 60;
time_control.period_time = system === "canadian" ? 30 * 5 : 30;
time_control.periods = 5;
time_control.stones_per_period = 5;
break;
}
break;
case "correspondence":
time_control.pause_on_weekends = true;
switch (size) {
case "9x9":
time_control.initial_time = 3 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.time_increment = 1 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.max_time = 7 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.main_time = 3 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.period_time =
system === "canadian" ? 3 * 24 * 3600 : 1 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.periods = 3;
time_control.stones_per_period = 3;
break;
case "13x13":
time_control.initial_time = 3 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.time_increment = 1 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.max_time = 7 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.main_time = 5 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.period_time =
system === "canadian" ? 5 * 24 * 3600 : 1 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.periods = 5;
time_control.stones_per_period = 5;
break;
case "19x19":
time_control.initial_time = 3 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.time_increment = 1 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.max_time = 7 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.main_time = 7 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.period_time =
system === "canadian" ? 5 * 24 * 3600 : 1 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.periods = 5;
time_control.stones_per_period = 5;
break;
}
break;
I was thinking 10 stones in 5 minutes for live, 30 stones in 5 minutes for blitz, to keep the same average speed as the other systems ^^ (i think the initial time is 20 minutes in normal speed? That seems fine.)
It seems wierd that 13x13 currently has a different setting to the other two.
Is that something that should be straightened out, or at least commented on here?
Just my opinion but I don’t see why different boards should have different settings when it comes to overtime.
I suspect there’s an argument that it’s harder to think quickly about a bigger board.
Curiously, the period time and stones per period both appear to have been scaled with board size in the current default blitz settings, so unless I’m missing something, the time available per stone remains the same?
If I’m reading the code correctly, it seems indeed that the time per stone remains constant.
So wierd eh
I submitted this for anoek review, you might want to see if it’s what you meant:
switch (speed) {
case "blitz":
time_control.pause_on_weekends = false;
switch (size) {
case "9x9":
time_control.initial_time = 20;
time_control.time_increment = 10;
time_control.max_time = 30;
time_control.main_time = 60;
time_control.period_time = system === "canadian" ? 60 * 5 : 10;
time_control.periods = 3;
time_control.stones_per_period = 30;
break;
case "13x13":
time_control.initial_time = 20;
time_control.time_increment = 10;
time_control.max_time = 30;
time_control.main_time = 60 * 3;
time_control.period_time = system === "canadian" ? 60 * 5 : 10;
time_control.periods = 4;
time_control.stones_per_period = 30;
break;
case "19x19":
time_control.initial_time = 30;
time_control.time_increment = 10;
time_control.max_time = 60;
time_control.main_time = 60 * 5;
time_control.period_time = system === "canadian" ? 60 * 5 : 10;
time_control.periods = 5;
time_control.stones_per_period = 30;
break;
}
break;
case "live":
time_control.pause_on_weekends = false;
switch (size) {
case "9x9":
time_control.initial_time = 180;
time_control.time_increment = 30;
time_control.max_time = 300;
time_control.main_time = 5 * 60;
time_control.period_time = system === "canadian" ? 60 * 5 : 30;
time_control.periods = 5;
time_control.stones_per_period = 10;
break;
case "13x13":
time_control.initial_time = 180;
time_control.time_increment = 30;
time_control.max_time = 300;
time_control.main_time = 10 * 60;
time_control.period_time = system === "canadian" ? 60 * 5 : 30;
time_control.periods = 4;
time_control.stones_per_period = 10;
break;
case "19x19":
time_control.initial_time = 180;
time_control.time_increment = 30;
time_control.max_time = 300;
time_control.main_time = 20 * 60;
time_control.period_time = system === "canadian" ? 60 * 5 : 30;
time_control.periods = 5;
time_control.stones_per_period = 10;
break;
}
break;
case "correspondence":
time_control.pause_on_weekends = true;
switch (size) {
case "9x9":
time_control.initial_time = 3 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.time_increment = 1 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.max_time = 7 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.main_time = 3 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.period_time =
system === "canadian" ? 3 * 24 * 3600 : 1 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.periods = 3;
time_control.stones_per_period = 3;
break;
case "13x13":
time_control.initial_time = 3 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.time_increment = 1 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.max_time = 7 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.main_time = 5 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.period_time =
system === "canadian" ? 5 * 24 * 3600 : 1 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.periods = 5;
time_control.stones_per_period = 5;
break;
case "19x19":
time_control.initial_time = 3 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.time_increment = 1 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.max_time = 7 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.main_time = 7 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.period_time =
system === "canadian" ? 5 * 24 * 3600 : 1 * 24 * 3600;
time_control.periods = 5;
time_control.stones_per_period = 5;
break;
}
Pestr
July 22, 2023, 9:26pm
21
I sometimes played IRL tournaments with 20 or 25 stones per 10 minutes canadian byoyomi. I think the interval 10 minutes for default setting is more important than number of stones per interval.
For me 10 min / 25 stones is good for online play. Or 5 / 25 for a fast play.
: what do you want changed?