In this case, I would be completely convinced my opponent was cheating, and would feel that the AGA was completely inadequate in dealing with it: whining to the public is the only way I would be able to shine light on a structural problem.
I would accept being thrown out of the tournament because of it, so be it, inadequate organisations handle things inadequately. I would still feel that the 1k ('s team) should be expelled as well, as I see no way to explain how the 1k could possibly have played this game on their own.
The least the AGA could do is give an explanation how a long-term 1k plays like a professional in a legitimate way.
It could be a move made deliberately to throw off people who claim that this player cheated. Are you saying this is not likely?
For me personally, the convincing factors where that 1.) this player used only a short amount of time and 2.) was able to outplay his 6D opponent throughout the entire game, with the exception of one (!) move. If you analyse typical games between amateur human players of similar strength with AI, usually there are many ups and downs. A lopsided win like this indicates that Black played not only at 6D strength, but even better. I guess we’ll see how strong this player will perform now that webcams are mandatory. If he is really so strong, he’ll perform very well and the accusations will quiet down. However right now I am very doubtful that this will happen.
You would accept being thrown out of the tournament because of it but if your wrong lets just say you are wrong would you be okay that the 1kyu will now be shamed for his entire future say you found evidence to prove he didn’t cheat would you be okay with people shaming him after the fact?
This is the only part I can’t agree with I agree that drastic measures had to be taken, I agree he is likely cheating (I would even say he “DID” cheat), I agree that the AGA handled it absolutely poorly.
I just can’t agree with public shaming of someone unless you have solid evidence because you are about to tear down someone’s life and you don’t have something of equal value to bet.
If I use AI to cheat, I use both numbers, winrate and number of points. I read somewhere that a strong pro can catch up 20 points in the endgame against an amateur 5 dan. So if an AI is behind by 4 points at move 105, there is no doubt it can win against an amateur 6d, even if small deliberate mistakes are added.
If you look at the schedule, you will see that he won’t play at the future rounds of the current tournament. If he did cheat, my guess is that he won’t play next year.
I heard about a suspicion of cheating in the 2020 Latin American League, it turns out the suspected player doesn’t participate in the 2021 tournament…
Personally I can’t believe this player is not cheating. Sure, it’s possible to gain a lot of ranks when you’re a kyu player, but going from 1k to 8d in a single year as an adult who hasn’t changed rank in 10 years: it’s not only unlikely, I consider that impossible.
However, if by some miracle this player is not cheating, then it’s easy enough for them to clean their name by repeating this style of playing in a way that is undoubtedly without outside assistance, e.g. through webcam or in a real-life setting. I’m not tearing down their life if it turns out that they’re actually a pro: it would be Go news all over the world instead.
Its not easy to clean there name the world doesn’t work like that. To many incidents where people are blamed for doing something wrong and people still cause harm to those people. Even if he does clean his name there will always be people who want to say otherwise no matter how many facts are spit in there face.
Of course we could argue that if they are that stupid and still want to cause the player a problem then they shouldn’t be paid any mind. But, its easier to say that as someone on the outside then the person on the spot.
I agree, however, here clearing their name would be equivalent to something miraculous. It’s like somebody accused of murder, except that then it turns out the murder victim was alive all along.
That’s exactly my thoughts. We can gossip if he cheated or not, it is just gossip. With everything I said above, if I ever meet this guy, my reflect is: oh, this is the “cheater” we discussed on OGS.
I think they shouldn’t have been mentioned by name. But I do think the case should’ve been made public, it’s an official tournament after all. Perhaps just publish the AI graph, accompanied by how the AGA handled the whole thing.
I don’t agree with public shaming either. This should have remained a private discussion between the Montreal team and the referees. If I were in the Montreal team, at most I would say publicly that I refuse to participate in the tournament if anti-cheating rules are not enforced (without mentioning any name).
I remember reading stories from chess. Where public accusations ban is strict. And people end up sharing accusations privately and research their opponents through friends who played them to see if they’re suspect or clean. Too long ago to find it.
Have you heard about recent chess cheating scandal? I wanted to make a write-up of all cases in 2020 in chess but too much work.
Yeah, I watch Hikaru Nakamura’s streams and vids on occasion, the cheating scandal blew up bigly in the chess community. Also because the public exchanges between Wesley So and L. Petrosian were ludicrous, really.
I saw the game… With all due respects to Kyu Players Especially High-Kyu, but there is no way black is 1-Kyu or 1D. Black played terrifyingly too well for kyu levels especially on opening. Hell, i even believe if someone tell me that this game is a high-Dan game
But, i won’t make early conclusion for this, it’s more wise to let tournament holder themselves to decide Whether this valid cheating or not
From reading the discussions flying around, I get the feeling that this was hardly the first cheating scandal in the city league, just the first one that was not hushed hushed. And that the AGA never found conclusive evidence in any of the other cases either. And never took any measure to discourage cheating.
