Are there any policy statement around content creators and OGS games? I re-read the terms of service and didn’t see anything there.
Specifically, a “youtuber” played a game with me recently and, without informing me, made a youtube video of our game. The youtuber has now created content from which they benefit. I would have had no objection if I had been provided informed consent, but I wasn’t given that opportunity.
When I asked the person posting this content about consent, and if they would provide informed consent, they argued that they would not, since asking for such consent could be interpreted as promotional content and this would violate the Terms of Service of the platform.
What is the position of the OGS folks? What about the community?
If I’m not mistaken, there is no such thing as ownership over a game of Go, or over the moves that are played. That is, anyone is free to relay a game of Go, no matter if the player(s) who played it approve of that or not.
At least, that’s how it is with chess (about which a lot more can be found).
I think that’s right. Ownership exists on commentaries, organization of a set of position and people pictures. (For most interesting cases). But not on games.
Ok, perhaps there is a precedent for games not being content - I didn’t mean to imply ownership of the game, but I do object to being a participant to youtube content without being informed.
This does sound like non-sense, however there is a point to be made about asking people to play against you while being streamed or for educational purposes. That tends to alter the perception of the player involved, leading to altered play (for better or for worse), thus possibly spoiling the original purpose for using the game in their content.
In the case of YT videos, they could have asked you afterwards. They do not have to do so (imagine getting the concent of all the people appearing in streams or YT videos about multiplayer games), but I think that this is the polite/correct thing to do (unless the opponent leaves immediately after the game).
But it’s questionable if you are a participant of the video. Surely you play the moves that are shown in the video, but you are not providing commentary, you are not personally in the video (presumably), and in a certain way OGS is a “public space”.
Suppose you’d want the video to be taken down, on what grounds would you file the complaint to YouTube? It has to breach their terms of service in some way, but I don’t think it does (although I don’t know which video you are referring to).
Basically any game you play anywhere is not copyrighted. So someone can just put it online and comments it. Noone can own a game. (There is some jurisprudence on this but can’t give you any reference, sorry.)
Now to have your name published is maybe another matter i dunno if in itself it’s reprehensible. Well maybe if for example there are some personal attack (i mean not if a move is working or not but if you are qualified badly).
I feel like this is not so much an issue of copyright, as it is of privacy. Of course, in a public game, I’m not sure a privacy argument holds much water either.
I wouldn’t know, not having watched the entire thing. That wasn’t my issue, but my issue was that someone misrepresented their intent when accepting my game, and then used that game for their own (financial presumably) benefit. I don’t like that very much.
What about any open world online game? It’s not possible to get consent of everyone who is walking around in virtual world. It should never be allowed to stream in real time any open world online game ?
I understand your feeling. To avoid it, it seems that you should have played it privately at first (even if i am not sure it is enough protection but ok). Thanks @benjito for the privacy concept which simplify.
By playing in public, you let anyone do what he did. I mean if you go yourself show and comment your game to let say some friends, would you think he would be ok for him to feel offended that you didn’t ask him before? Professional players have their games regularly analysed by people/magazine/teachers… and they can’t ask money from any of them as the creators of their games. When the American Go Association publish a Lee SeDol game commentary they made themselves, they don’t ask him and they don’t pay anything to him. The only one who could be retributed is the commentator. Games are not like a process, a tool, a name you invented. They don’t have protection like with a Copyright. There is no offense in using it to make money, and no obligation to share some benefits.
If the problem is to have your name published, well, that’s not an offense in itself too. That happens many many times, like in the news, in books, on the web, journalists are not asking your agreement to do this as long as they don’t hurt your privacy.
Anyway from your last answer, seems you are mostly annoyed by your game going published (and commented) and used to make money without being asked. But that’s simply legal.
Note that a game is not considered by the law as a piece of art too. (Which would give some protection).
Note that laws vary by countries but to my knowledge there is quite a consensus on the absence of Copyright for games. If any different regulation somewhere on games, i will happily take note.
As others have noted, you have no ownership whatsoever of your Go games - indeed, someone could come along and make a YouTube video out of one of your games even if they weren’t your opponent.
That said, if the other person said anything that could be construed as harassment, it might run afoul of the OGS terms of service. Maybe an OGS moderator could comment on this if one is available.
A final note: YouTube videos and Twitch streams are good for OGS and Go more generally. These platforms have the potential of reaching larger audiences and bringing more people to the game, or at least keeping current players interested. So I think content creators should have a lot of leeway, so long as they aren’t harassing anyone.
I don’t know if it’s against the rules to do this or not, but I have considered checking all the big streamers on twitch before playing a game. “And I’ve got a game …, oh they resigned.”
Ever since Dwyrin told someone they have the best username on OGS, I have been trying to think of a better username.
