Controversial Go opinions

A. I wasn’t talking about Greece specifically in that discussion, and people weren’t replying specifically about Greece. Nobody wants to put in the work for kids that aren’t already top material, with nice clothes and nice grades.

B. This is exactly the kind of argument that the relevant authorities use against us as a country to get any attention, help and consideration in our Go endeavors, that “the breakthrough is too hard, sorry :woman_shrugging:t2:”. The truth is, realistically it’s harder (which is not a revelation btw to point out), but at least someone could try. Nobody wants to even try.

Please don’t go into a “but me” block, this is not my point.

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Are we a specifically nasty country that has a specific problem with underfunded schools OR maybe this is a problem that exists in even the richest countries?

Of course each person will think of their local experience, but the problems I mentioned about establishing a new culture, where none exists (arranging for buildings, schedules, keys, responsibility for the building, responsibility for the kids on extra-curriculum time, bureaucracy for keeping the school open when it should be closed etc) are the same everywhere you go.

There are more problems in some places/countries or less elsewhere, but those that I mentioned are the same everywhere because they are the most basic ones.

You are making this about some sort of discrimination again, but noone actively says or does that. It is simply easier to expand on a place that has already invested in something similar, than build from the ground up.

It is not that nobody wants to put the work or they do not like kids without good uniforms.
For one place it is “X amount of work” and for the other place it is “X multiplied by Y” where Y > 1 … it is just not the same thing.

Well, yeah, it is not a revelation, but if someone seems to ignore it, then you have to point it out.

Would you want to try it? Why are you so non-chalantly talking about what other people should put effort into? Be that someone, give it a try and then, by all means, complain how other people didn’t help. But if you do not want to do it EITHER, then …

I do not understand this sentence.

I am. :woman_shrugging:t2:

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By the way, I thought it was OK to at least dream of something better and enjoy such discussions…

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I think that wishing your Russian OGS opponents a broken leg nowadays is controversial.

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Of course, Go is the original MMA (Mental Martial Arts).

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Awesome! :smiley: What/where is the club plan then? I am very interested in this and very willing to contribute and help with finding equipment or teaching materials :slight_smile:

It is not really relevant but I am curious as into what kind of school did you pick to do it (primary, middle or high school).

It is not only OK, it is splendid to dream as long as your dream involves your effort as well.
Dreaming of what OTHER people would do FOR you and then complaining when they do not do it and being snide about their concerns, is called “entitlement”.

I am all for dreaming, I am not in favour of petulance. Words matter.

I am quite enjoying this and every actual effort or feasable idea that would help promote Go, and because I like to put my money and effort where my mouth is, I will be elated if your effort to create a club is ongoing and I can actually help.

Please provide information about your Go Club plan and if you need books and equipment, I am always available to help you find them or offer them myself :slight_smile:

This is so exciting, getting to know about the first Go Club in Greece. :grin:

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As always, trying to ruin everything, by changing what I said. :roll_eyes::roll_eyes::roll_eyes:

I said I’m trying to do something specific, I never said anything about “the first Go Club in Greece!!!”.

But how else would you pave the way for your usual “aha! You said this and then did that! Gotcha!!!”.

Seriously, :roll_eyes:. I don’t think I’d ask for your help, because you would be interested in correcting even the way I breathe, not actually help. It’s not like you react well when told to please, please, please just listen and don’t make it about yourself. :roll_eyes:

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How on earth am I distorting anything? You responded “I am” to a specific question and doing a specific thing. It doesn’t get more clear-cut than this.
If you had something ELSE in mind, you could have elaborated.
In any case, small misunderstandings happen and it is not too late:

Tell us then what is this specific thing you are trying to do instead of beating around the bush.
We were talking about Clubs in Go schools.
Now, apparently, you are talking about something else and, as far as I am concerned, as long it is promoting Go, it’s all good! :slight_smile:
But you are not explaining WHAT that “else” is.
Are we supposed to guess? :stuck_out_tongue:

Thank God the internet is full of self-appointed psychologists judging everybody behind their keyboards, we are saving so much money on diagnosis. :smiley:
Fortunately, I only offered to send books and equipment, the rest is in your imagination.
As for your erroneous judgement, fortunately, there are many people that have actually worked with me and they all say the exact opposite from you. What they experienced matters, what you imagine, does not.
Food for thought: work and forum are not the same thing.

It is funny how you hate “anecdotal evidence”, but you have no problem making accussations that do not contain even that :stuck_out_tongue:

Spare us the imaginary personality attacks and stick to a useful topic. Can you talk about the “specific” plan that you are actually doing or is it too much to ask? That’s what’s important.

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Since we’re being controversial: I stopped doing “awareness” things about Go the moment the EGF boss said that online players are lesser members of the Go community. Mind you, I have access to kids and parents worlwide and I am not changing my mind soon.

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That’s a weird take. Especially since there are for sure more games played online than otb. Otoh that doesn’t finance the egf :joy:

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Well, you are quite correct that this is controversial.
EGF is not losing anything - since online games are not in their plans anyway - and those kids and parents are missing out on a great game. :thinking:

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In some contexts this is a controversial statement

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Not only. Start in high kyus

Source please?

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It seems you missed some serious ogf drama lol

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Then that is precisely the problem

Rather than seeing how we could use go to help and enrich children’s lives, they are then viewed as a tally of how successful as an organiser, in which case it’s a safer bet to go for the ‘easy pickings’ of chess children. That in itself is an issue as I

Which leads to a second motive, the go organisers feel ‘more at home’ with those who are already chess people and find it eas

The KEY, KEY point here is that none of these points are actually true—on their own. But they do combine with each other in the mind of the go organiser and organisation, which then become powerful enough to make them act as if they’re bigoted, corrupt or selfish when they’re not that at all, but being those things is a way of being ‘safe’. In other they do bad things simply to fit into how things have been done before.

I remember Taranu sensei saying people who can’t help but want to help are more dangerous than those who can help but don’t want to help or won’t. I say if inclusivity is a goal. But if you fetishize the very groups you’re trying to include and think we deserve a huge pat on the back when you include them, you’d always see it as a charity work that specifically isn’t that important since

It’s backwards. The best way to improve European go isn’t to throw together a pro organisation to increase the strength of a group of men But of course it would take longer to get go cred if you do it that way, and it’s weird that even an organisation based on a game that emphasises long-term goals over short-term rewards is falling into that very trap, and accidentally being blatantly sexist even though most of them would be against sexism. It’s what happens when people in power always some type of immediate and constant indirect praise of some sort, it’s completely innocent and understandable but not conducive to the good of any organization that actually wants to benefit the game it claims to promote :thinking:

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Wow did he say that? Are you sure something wasn’t lost in translation as he doesn’t strike me as that kind of person at all and we don’t want slander. He seems a humble person.

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You make some great points. I’m going to open up a new thread on ‘controversial go promotion opinions’ so as this doesn’t become saturated

In my personal view, I’m the kind of person who believes going beyond what’s asked and expected of you is part of the meaning of life.

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I kinda understand egf’s point of view, they only have very limited funds available so they mainly want to focus on supporting real-life tournaments and the congress, which actually do require quite a bit of money and resources to organise.

Online tournaments on other hand can be held for almost free by just one or two people, it only needs few enthusiasts for having regular online tournaments and thriving community around those. It can be done without egf too

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