Controversial Go Promotion Opinions

Why do you feel such a need to separate them?

It would be better if those geniuses could choose whether they want to become 7d or not :slight_smile:

Again, I do not understand why.
In youth tournaments the difference between the number of boys and girls is much smaller than in “normal” tournaments, btw. But girls tend to quit more.

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You make it sound easy, but I think that strategy is not easy at all.

I think we need large numbers of players, before there is a significant chance of finding geniuses (male or female). So to have any chance of success, we would first need to grow the size of the go community.

We can try to increase the fraction of female players (and I think we should), but that also is not easy.

While still young, boys and girls seem to be attracted similarly to games such as chess and go. This has been investigated by the chess community and I can confirm this from my experience in my own youth club: in the age of 6-9, the numbers of girls and boys in chess (and go) are about even. But during their teenage years, girls drop out more often than boys. I don’t know why that happens, and I have not found an explanation for this yet.

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Yes, it’s precisely because girls tend to quit more that it’s important youth tournaments are held in conjunction with Women’s tournaments

And even if we’re unconcerned about Women’s go, there is a practical reason to do this. It’s still the case in the modern age that the primary caretaker of the Children is the women. Therefore it’s an easy way to get more people playing if you have one joint Women and under 15 tournament that acts as both the Women’s championship and U15 Youth championship. In addition it would be more likely to attract women with traditionalist views on their role, since they can view taking part as simply ‘taking care of the kids’, whereas otherwise they would never play in a women’s tournament. I’d say the only reason it’s not done is that it’s assumed that women always need charity rather than believing they could actually contribute. The possibility that women are a help instead of a burden is not considered.

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I was also thinking promotion should happen at Tengen rather than the edge of the board, considering the already-natural progression of the game, and our view of tengen as the “uppermost” point on the board. Doesn’t it literally mean “heaven”, anyway?

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Since it was mentioned twice, and also by Taranu sensei, I’l say I don’t think it’s mysterious at all that girls and boys are mostly even until their 15 and then girls quit. It’s exactly what I’d expect.

1-All the strong role models—and by strong I mean in the strictest sense
2-Women are more attentive to peer group think and most children in our society haven’t been trained to develop the psychological maturity to separate their identity from. Therefore if they don’t see female role models right around the time they may be most curious about their girlhood and in the case of heterosexual girls, also worrying about boys more, they start to wonder whether they should be doing it as a girl and what boys would think of their hobby. By the time the child is an adult it’s too late. That’s why when in Korea and Japan they associated go with femininity it was among the more effective methods. Of course I am over generalising, as there are many children, boys and girls, and I should know from experience, whose personality type makes them more immune to this type of thing or make them feel this way years earlier than other kids. And I acknowledge that there are kids for whom it’s the other way around. I just don’t want to throw away go talent because of reasons as stated.

3-This is also true for me. There are people who are more squeamish, and this includes many males like myself, maybe I’m generally slightly girly in some ways, but more women in general are put off by unclean or rowdy environments.

Of course there would be many other reasons I don’t know about, and I probably don’t recall all the ones I do know about. But a little emotional sensitivity might go a long way. In an anti-emotion society problems like these are treated as mysteries, maybe?

I have the feeling you’re projecting your own views here. Are you such a traditionalist?

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Good question, no, I am very much quite the opposite, in a very literal sense! One of the first things I’d mention in a relationship is that I’m much more comfortable with the reverse of the traditional roles, the traditional roles would slowly kill my soul if I personally were to follow them, but I do understand I’m in the genetic minority and try to accommodate others without having a polarising attitude. ‘You women/men are backwards’! I must avoid that attitude!

All around the animal kingdom there are species that are more dimorphic and species that are less. Humans contain people at both extremes. We can agree Bonobos are more civilized without hating on Chimpanzees. I’m promoting women and youth go to all women and youth without judging them, I hope, and if I do, correct me!

My style of learning is also probably not in the genetic majority, which may also explain why I can somewhat sympathise with the neurodiverse

I guess thoughts on my personal preferences have done a good job of being slightly of topic :slightly_smiling_face:

I also think that the primary way to spread go should be tsumego. This is how we find the 12 year old geniuses.

Make a beginner tsumego book, but market it as a general puzzle book. Use stars or gems with sparkles to represent the stones, and use bright colours for the book, all to make it more child friendly. They’d have no idea they’re playing go! Until the very end of the book with a 7x7 board and more information about where to learn more.

It seems the difference between European 7 Dan’s and former High-ranking Korean insei is 21.5%, or 211 elo

Were you aware that the 2019 U16 European youth championship (i.e. mixed) was won by a girl?: European Youth Go Championship Under 16 | Tournament card | E.G.D. - European Go Database

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That is another lovely idea!

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That’s a really good sign we’re making use of all talent when boys and girls are winning equally!

Of course,

Let’s say there is one tournament table. The EGF currently holds youth tournaments up to U20.
Women will only be paired against women or girls U20. And boys U20 will only be paired against boys or girls U20. Girls U20, however, will be paired against both since they’re participating in both the European Women’s Championship and the European Youth Championship. This should continue until the age in humanity were women are not the primary caretakers of children. This would revelutionise European go and help us compete with Asian pros in no time.

Well promoting only at Tengen itself would be not that many opportunities to promote . . . Perhaps the eight points around Tengen should also count.

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It would really be great if newspapers in the west included tsumego . . .

That was the case in years 70’s (80’s?) with a small go corner in a famous french popularization of science magazine.

Namely by Pierre Aroutcheff in “science et vie”

That’s in fact the first time i heard about go, but my interest came later.

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For decades, we had bridge, chess, draughts and go puzzles in the weekly magazine “Elseviers Weekblad” with a circulation of 130.000 copies at that time.
The column was composed by Max Rebattu, a strong bridge, chess and go player (5d) in the 60s and 70s. Apparently he is still quite a strong go player, although he is 83 years old now.

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Chess and bridge columns used to be staples of U.S. newspapers. I have never seen a draughts or go column in a newspaper. However, your post made me realize that bridge now seems to be disappearing as well. Haven’t seen one in a long time.

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Or Backgammon:

https://bkgm.com/articles/Magriel/NYTimes/index.html

From June 1977 to July 1980, Paul Magriel wrote a weekly column on backgammon for the New York Times.

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The international (10x10 board size) variant of draughts has been a relatively popular mind sport in the Netherlands, especially in the North, for a couple of centuries. It’s also fairly popular in Eastern Europe and French-speaking regions of Africa.
It’s considered part of Dutch culture, and we have had quite a few world class players and world champions.

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Interesting. Backgammon was a huge fad in the U.S. about that time, so I am not surprised. I played some, but never really got into it. I do have a couple backgammon books in my game-book collection, but doubt I will ever revisit the game.

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Very true. I dimly remember having seen bridge columns in German magazines in the past, but that must have been before I started playing myself and that again is nearly 20 years ago now.

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It’s just the dumbing down of society I guess :pensive: they’ve replaced chess puzzles with yappy flickbait headlines