DDK study - WANTED: Dan level analysts


#1

Hello folks!

As the DDK study has been well underway for almost 2 weeks, I’ve been hatching a plan that requires a lot of dan level players willing to analyze a lot of games. I’m thinking about 5 comparisons (10 games) per person, if we really get a lot of analysts, maybe fewer.

TO CLARIFY, I’m not talking about doing extensive game reviews. Example:

Say you get 2 games with players [A vs C] and [B vs D]. I would ask you to compare A’s level compared to B’s level (e.g.: A>B). Perhaps on categories like opening, fighting, tsumego/endgame.

The whole thing would start around mid-July and you will probably get about 1 week to finish the assessments.

It would be a great help and much appreciated by everyone participating in the study, and of course by me. :slight_smile:

So. If you’d like to help me out here and spend some time assessing game records, please let me know. <3

Of course if you have questions, you can ask me directly via message.

Current roster [6]: mark5000, BoneSaw, martin3141, emerus, Mitvailer, lovecall, KevF


#2

I’m down.


#3

Note that you can also use leela to analyze games


#4

Leela-zero is a great teacher as well.

Let her point of the 3 mistakes (winrate drop >10%) will already be of great help.

You can manually do this or in a script.


#5

Nope, I can’t ask Leela if player A from game x is stronger than player B from game y (possibly subdivided into opening, midgame, endgame or joseki, fighting, life and death). That’s why I need hoomans, and reasonably strong ones at that. Are you game? :wink:

I mean I can try my best to be objective but since I’m running the study I’d rather have unaffiliated dan players do the judging. :slight_smile:


#6

In that regard it would be better if you got dans from another place and don’t tell them about the study at all, to make it truly blind. Perhaps you could organise a “different study” where you try to “analyse” the ability of dan players to judge the relative and absolute strength of kyu players and secretly use that to get the results for the actual study. :stuck_out_tongue:

No idea how one would catch these objective dans though…


#7

There are plenty of ways to make all this more rigorous but it’s just not feasible. For a future study, one that isn’t created on a whim, perhaps. The only other places where people could be open to do something like this would be OSR or Lx19 … hm maybe I will have to post there, just because I need about 5-10 people that aren’t me. :slight_smile:


#8

If you still need more, I’m a 3d teacher so I do a lot of analysis of games. I’d be curious to see the outcome of that experiment and to take part in it.


#9

This sounds interesting. I’m willing to contribute, but I’m not exactly sure what you have in mind. So the Dan players are supposed to compare two players from two different games, and make remarks about their strength and weaknesses?


#10

Yea, basically just comparing either just overall impression (A > B) or certain aspects (e.g.: A1>B1, A2=B2, A3>B3 - the more analysts we get, the more detailed we can be) of gameplay in different areas.


#11

I’m SDK (3k KGS, current OGS rank is in flux). Let me know if you want me to help the study as well.


#12

ok


#13

I am interested in helping too :slight_smile:


#14

For anyone still confused, I’ve added an example in the OP:

Say you get 2 games with players [A vs C] and [B vs D]. I would ask you to compare A’s level compared to B’s level (e.g.: A>B). Perhaps on categories like opening, fighting, tsumego/endgame.

Because this is harder than comparing X and Y in a game [X vs Y], I need strong players with a lot of experience to do this.


#15

Okay, I’m in. When will we have to do the analysis?


#16

It would start around mid-July and I think you should be able to finish the assessments within 1 week.


#17

Will you need my e-mail adress? If so, how can I send it to you in private? (Sorry if this is off topic, I’m pretty new to this forum)


#18

I don’t need (read: want) any personal data and I intend to converse with all of you via PM on this forum. If you have an account that doesn’t have basic rights (includes sending PMs) yet, you will still be able to reply to a PM I send to you. :slight_smile:


#19

I think I may be able to do this. My current rank is 4D. My understanding is you want us to judge the level difference between two players regarding to their performances in opening, mid-game, endgame so and so for.


#20

I am probably an OGS 1kyu but have just poked my head into the dan ranks but am sure I will drop back down. Feel free to use me if you are short of people @smurph