Decisions that do not matter

Hopefully but in a good way.

If you didn’t emphasise that the decision is arbitrary you might want to make sure to pick the Katago move for instance.

But hopefully if you emphasise the kinds of move choices to make here “don’t matter” you’re free to pick between preferences based on aesthetic or other factors, not based on which is the better move.

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This is a poll about left-right preference

Technically you are right about the poll. But this doesn’t change anything. The outcome of poll about left or right and top or bottom won’t be 50/50.

how existing tradition can explain the data with no additional assumptions about physiology or different cultures

The tradition doesn’t explain. It doesn’t have any relation with virtual board. https://senseis.xmp.net/?PlayingTheFirstMoveInTheUpperRightCorner

Polite corner is upper right, under the assumption that that makes playing in their lower right convenient for your opponent

On virtual board upper right corner is upper right for the opponent. On real board it is lower left.

I found another thread about first move etiquette First move etiquette - #3 by mark5000

I have a strong belief that human perception doesn’t have symmetry under board rotation.

Does AI give different analyze result of rotated board?

Ai has a preference.

It’s even stranger on like 9x9 boards where it can give mirrored symmetrical moves different scores because it doesn’t explore them equally.

I think though, just from the first position, we’re picking blacks move, and we can assume we’re looking at it from Black’s perspective, like we would be over the board (even though online both players have the same perspective online).

@Samraku’s comment is explaining why we (let’s say experienced go players), play the way we do. We’ve read in books, posts or videos that this is the “polite” thing to do, or to be honest that it’s convention and a large majority of games are played like that by professionals and amateurs, so it makes sense to follow along with it for convenience.

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Then why do most players play in the upper right online? it’s because of the tradition

Thank you, I was starting to wonder if I was the only one understanding anything I wrote here

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It may be a habit.
Black player see board as they should.

White player see it upside down.

Why reply to me in a manner indicative of rebuttal, while saying nothing I’ve disagreed with, but only repeating the same things? it comes off as very disingenuous. And it’s still not addressing my point

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Actually this makes me think that doing the opposite (or being unpredictable / unbiased wrt. such decisions) would increase ones winning chances very slightly.

Probably, but it would be an angle: unethical

Couldn’t disagree more. It’s a game, and as long as you follow the rules and don’t try to distract the other player with any “meta tactics” (like being noisy or whatever), then it’s all fair game.

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I think it’s quite a counterintuitive habit.

I think you could come up with various reasons why you might play close to yourself in the opening, in terms of pschologically taking the corners nearest you, and maybe right over left side could be a handedness thing.

I do think the main angle of tradition and politeness, which even gets mentioned in beginner go books, similar to how to hold a stone, is a fairly dominant reason why people play top right first.

It’d probably be very slight, and maybe only at certain levels, where maybe you can remember a pattern, if it’s on the right side of the board.

I think if you can remember long enough joseki, then you can probably get away with remembering it rotated.

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That is interesting point. I can read local groups correctly regardless of rotation.

I don’t know why. It doesn’t depend on size. It may be a long connected group of stones across the board. Rotated or not I can recognize it without any difficulty.

But the whole board doesn’t look the same for me under rotation.

I don’t think it would make much of a difference during the game, but purposefully forcing your opponent into a rotated board position they are less used to, sounds very much like a meta tactic to me. Its goal is not so much to be distracting, but to be disturbing their thought processes.

I wouldn’t consider it unfair, but bad sportsmanship (or a wrong mindset).

If you want to play something unusual, play a move that’s really different from the usual ones.


Something else: It wouldn’t be too hard to test which corners non-go-players would play on the first three moves (if told to play 3-3, 3-4 or 4-4).

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That’s a brilliant idea. It could resolve bias of traditions.

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As long as it’s done through moves :woman_shrugging:

People who play both online and on a real board should be used to both orientations. But when I came back to my go club after the Covid crisis, and my opponent played sanrensei with his black stones appearing on my left, it felt very weird.

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Anything can be shin fuseki if you’re brave enough

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Isn’t it a “meta tactic” not to start in the upper right corner?

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No, that’s just normal in-game options (moves). Only things that are outside the game rules / logic can be “meta tactics”. That is how I view it.

If you consider not start in upper right corner to be a meta tactic, do you consider do start in upper right corner to be a meta tactic too?

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