Deepmind announces AlphaGo Zero: Learning from scratch

Hi @GreenAsJade and thank you too for your reply.

Eggs-actly! As I have frequently observed to be the case, you have again pointed out the crux of the situation. If I could only do this too, then my postings would be significantly shorter! :smile:

Now I get your point.

I agree.

Thanks for the elucidating post.

– Musash1

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Well first, in my example the pro didn’t play a trick play cause he took more points than if he didn’t play it.

Also sure, there is a difference between a good move and the move that one should play, which was my point. You seemed to be saying that they were the same. If so, I mean it depends on whether you are playing to win games and rank up, or try to play perfect games when you don’t even know the basics… it’s up to you… personally, to get stronger, I think it’s better to do the former…

I’m imagining if alphago randomly took over my game for one move and started some crazy complicated joseki that i don’t know and i end up dying… Sure it might not be a bad move, but it made me lose the game. XD And generally, I don’t recommend to players to lose the game simply for the sake of playing the “correct move” lol

I can agree that saying “DDKs should do this, but dans should do this” perhaps sounds perhaps pretty dumb… But “players that want to fight and can read the variations should do this, while players that are weaker at reading and cannot should consider this much simpler move that avoids conflict” sounds pretty natural to me.

Also, idk when im teaching a beginner, and they play a move that keeps their stones connected, i tell them good job and am legit proud of them! I don’t tell them, oh you should have tenukid and invade the corner, take sente, then play this complicated attack on this other group, then come back and connect, lol. That would hold them back. Lol. I bet pros that are teaching do similarly. I know the teachers that I’ve learned from and respect most do this… Sure they know it’s a bad move, but they don’t tell you that, because it would just confuse the shit out of you and the move is showing improvement from your normal style, so compared to the other moves in the game maybe it was a good move…

Similarly if the beginner does go tenuki and invade that corner, die, and then get cut… There’s a good chance I’m not going to tell them that it was a good move, and all the possible followups… i’ll tell them they should be more concerned about their groups and to stay connected. Lol.

Yes, it’s not objective or algorithmic, you are correct, and sure it’s supporting playing of bad moves… it just seemed like you were speaking out against teachers that do this, which I disagree with, lol. That said it does depend on the student as well… I for example learn very well if you give me some complicated continuation and i have to try to understand it, and perhaps you do as well… but I believe there are others do not learn as well this way and may do better focusing on fewer aspects of the game at once.

Anyways, i believe understand your argument now, thanks for the clarification. :slight_smile:

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I think that I too now understand your argument (and it is good). I guess another problem that is perhaps responsible for the misunderstanding/miscommunication here is that I have never had a Go/Baduk teacher. Everything I have learned (and – I admit – it is not really very much :pensive:) has come from pro games or books for people much better than me. And I rarely understand what the pros are actually doing … :thinking:

Regards,

– Musash1

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The AGA Youtube Channel announced that going forward they would include AlphaGo Zero reviews - focusing on the opening - in their great AlphaGo series

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