Is there a way to do so? If analysis can be disabled, why not estimation?
There is no way. And I totally agree - the score estimator is as much of a crutch as analysis.
There was a conversation here about a month ago on this same topic.
I have to admit, I mostly play correspondence games and frequently use both SE and analysis. However, I find that when I do play a live game, my reading and counting are both incredibly weak due to my lazy practices. I’m strongly considering no longer using these features outside of post-game review.
Yeah - I’ve been playing a set of fun-games (unranked) where my oppo disabled these, and it really shines a light on how badly I lean on them normally.
I would love it if everyone just agreed they were turned off as the norm.
Unfortunately, whenever I post ranked challenges with analysis disabled, they go unanswered
Possibly because it’s too easy to bypass if someone is sufficiently motivated. It’s easy enough to have an sgf editor open next to the game to play out sequences even if analysis is turned off, thus I think most people would rather just do it all on the one screen.
That is true - for correspondence.
Also, I think that having to go to all that extra trouble is a significant enough hurdle to be worth it - it’s hard for me to imagine it being the norm that people wold do that.
And … this is not so much a thing for live though? It is easy to click “analyse” live, but too slow to do the whole sgf editor thing?
Usually time settings and your rank are the biggest factors in people accepting or rejecting your game. When I put short time settings it’s harder to get matches, Also make sure you aren’t being too picky with your rank limits.
Usually, the score estimator is extremely useless, it shows almost nothing in the early game, and in the end game it doesn’t matter because the game is already over and there is really nothing you can do about the score. I guess in the middle game it is somewhat useful, but often times it gets things wrong and so you often have to count yourself anyways.
It would still be nice to disable it, but not really necessary. But that is just my opinion.
Estimation matters In the middle game or even in the endgame, if you know you’re behind or ahead it might make playing easier for you. If you know you’re behind you could have a sense of urgency in your play. Likewise, if the guy thinks he is ahead and is playing slack and realises he is behind with score estimator, he might try something desperate later. I don’t need it and I want my opponents to win or lose by their own counting and positional judgement ability too.
Your endgame statement is terribly incorrect in that it does matter. That few points difference makes a difference in whether you should start a Ko and whether you need to win it or not. If you’re even further behind, you might try something ridiculous like invading into an obviously live group hoping the opponent messes up.
The thing is the estimator shows you more than just the score difference.
It is, as you say, largely useless at the score difference.
But in the mid game it also points out weak points. That is extremely valuable, or at least it feels so…
In fact, if the dots that it draws were removed, then it would be useless!
I definitely agree with this, it is handy to see what points could potentially be weak and what areas are strong. However, a lot of the time you also have to use your own personal judgement as to what areas are weak or strong, as the score estimator is often wrong. Either that, or I don’t know how to exploit/protect these weakness, and therefore it is again rendered useless. If you are strong enough to be able to read out these sequences, then you are strong enough to recognize them on your own. But that is just my opinion.
Though, like I said before, the score estimator is often wrong, so in the mid-game, when fights break out and it is difficult for even us to understand the score, it is pretty much always useless.
However, I take back my statement before about the endgame. It is true that often times in the end game you might play something more desperate if you are behind or something safer if you are ahead.
Also, I am totally not against the idea of disabling score estimation as an option. Since it is only an option, then I am fine with it. I probably will use it too.
One thing though, I hope it won’t be disabled for spectators. Often times I will jump into a dan level game and have no idea what it going on, because I just got there and the board looks like a mess of stones. I could look at every little section of the board and find out who controls it, or I could estimate the score to give myself a rough estimate of what the board looks like, perhaps looking at the places where the score estimator is unsure.
i think the estimator should probably not even be used in post game review.
learning to count, estimate territories and see weaknesses and yose points
But how do you know if your counting is accurate if you have nothing to compare it with?
2 + 2 should always be 4? in my own variant of the dr straw technique i count a ‘point’ for each pair of empty spaces, and a ‘point’ for each captured stone. there’s really no way to mess it up unless you lose count
i guess if you mean trying to estimate unsettled areas, then its just an estimate anyways. if there is any ambiguity, then the estimator is going to be wildly wrong.
it occurs to me it would probably be a really good exercise to try to make estimates for middle games and correlate them with the final counts. one thing we used to do in lessons is have quizzes on the point sente and gote values of yose positions…umm, i should start trying to do that again
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