At position Q16,R14,R10, @GreenAsJade started the conversation:
If invasion is the standard answer to the pincer, why is this variant only number 3?
( FYI @mark5000 )
Waltheri with around stones and all games says that:
- O17 has been played 192 times
- O16 has been played 95 times
- R17 has been played 102 times
Waltheri with around stones and modern games (roughly post-bot) says that:
- O17 was been played 91 times
- O16 has been played 35 times
- R17 has been played 28 times
In the second case, R17 is the least-played move; in the first case, the second-least played.
ā¦ thanks! So I guess youāre agreeing with my observation that the comment on R17 is odd? (I can see now that itās not obvious that this comment is what I was referring to - at the time I asked the question, I had just hit ābackā from the R17 node so it was at the top of my mind!)
Not sure how joseki lib works, but in general they are equally good, so maybe thereās no specific reason why itās 3
What says invasion is the standard answer? This is ordered by popularity. In the case of a tie (2 and 3), 2 is more common in modern games
( FYI @mark5000 )
The variant under 3 says that itās the standard response.
Oops, didnāt get notified of this thread so assumed it bugged out.
Maybe it was true when the book was published or mistranslated. Changing ātheā to āaā would be all it takes.
Iām not sure if it is a direct quote since Iāve loaned that book out but I think it should be adjusted.
Hideo Otake says, āInvading the corner is considered the standard answer to the pincer.ā
Itās been proposed that this statement is inaccurate or outdated. Maybe it is. Iām not sure. The word āstandardā can denote normal, ordinary, or common (arguably still true). It can also denote usual, typical, or customary (arguably no longer true).
If we alter the wording, we should probably switch to a better source for the post-AI world. There should be many others.
Hideo Otake says, āInvading the corner is considered the standard answer to the pincer.ā
Itās been proposed that this statement is inaccurate or outdated.
What was the date of the statement?
Iām not sure if thatās clear 
Certainly, in raising it I was more asking the question ā¦ if this is true, then why isnāt this variant number 1?
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So one thing is that in the professional world, go is more of an āarms raceā. Those that innovate well and play strongly tend to do better than those that play the āstandardā.
For us, the standard move is the better move. For pros, innovation is the only way to stay ahead. Iāve also heard that pros tend to get bored of the āstandard / commonā move and that they have to use other pros to āassistā in their innovation in finding out why it sucks or is worthwhile. A pro testing stuff out on us doesnāt provide any sort of meaningful resistance or insight to the pro who is testing stuff out.
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For pros, innovation is the only way to stay ahead. Iāve also heard that pros tend to get bored of the āstandard / commonā move
I think Iāve heard Redmond speak to that effect before.