Does arrogance ruin Go?

I often offer a tip if i notice that my opponent is making the same/similar mistake multiple times in a game, and if i feel that an advice from a 2k is actually helpful for my opponent. And if i already have some connection with my opponent, like if we have chatted or played previously or something. Just dropping some random variations out of the blue isn’t prolly very useful, and it can indeed look arrogant sometimes.

So yeah, i kinda understand what you mean… I’m also just playing for the fun of it without putting any effort on getting stronger (i did actively study and tried to improve when i was beginner, but that was some years ago…)
So for me it’s not currently very useful if someone just suddenly reviews my game, since my brain isn’t ‘tuned in’ for learning and adapting new information. It often requires some mental preparation before i’m even ready to learn something new, thus that review will prolly just go to waste >___>

But if you, or me, see someone making the same mistake multiple times, i dont think theres any harm on asking “can i give you a tip?”

Understand your opponent too. If they’re much stronger, they might be so bored, they can’t help showing some variations or talking about the weather.

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Yes, I believe that I know exactly what you mean.

Related is the snobbery about Go gear (expensive, exotic, precious).

A few people simply are that way—or rather stay that way—, while others move through this state of mind and leave it behind again …

I think I’ve been guilty of both, the arrogance as well as the snobbery, the arrogance being stronger when I was a relative beginner, and the snobbery went on for some more time.

I also think it may have to do with making a religion of Go, making it the most important thing in one’s life, etc. etc., similar to whatever new thought, philosophy, politics or religion some people discover and then they become … “more royal than the king” (in Germany we say “more popely than the pope”). Or when some people stop smoking (which in itself is a good thing!), they can’t tolerate anyone smoking within a kilometer’s distance :smiley:

Been there, done that, OFTEN, in my 64 years of life.

And … I still often find that it is easier to appellate for modesty and humility than to strive for modesty and humility myself :roll_eyes:

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I loved to be a student especially when at the university. It was a luxury in my life where i still had not too much worry to earn my life and could try to understand more and do what i like.

At the same time i met so many students who liked to say with arrogance that studies were not at the center of their life. It was a distinctive positive sign of being a student who can succeed without studying.

Sometimes i wonder if we don’t have the same trend on OGS.

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I can’t say much about arrogant as someone already stated It’s part of ego and you cant control someone else egos

As for review. im actually happy if someone strong to shows my mistake. It might be as if you thought they said “You Suck, git gud”. But, if you see on bright sight that’s mean there are room for improvement.

That’s a western way of thinking. Society values talent more than hard work. Students who study hard don’t want to admit it in front of others. On the other hand I don’t know if this can be compared to OGS. Contrary to university studies, there is no pressure to succeed (*) in go, you can stay DDK for life and it’s perfectly OK.

(*) whatever that means. For some people, success means being in the top 50%, for others it means the top 5% or the top 1%.

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I can actually see where @mary.skolnik is coming from :slightly_smiling_face: My first game at Go club, my opponent (now a dear friend) said at the end “May I comment on the game?” Since he asked so nicely, I did not perceive it as arrogant, but rather helpful and polite. I guess the tone of politeness can be lost online but still, following his good example, I always ask my opponent if they would like to review rather than just diving straight in (online and IRL). If someone started pointing out my mistakes without asking first, I personally wouldn’t mind because I like to review. But I can definitely see how some could find it rude, presumptuous and potentially arrogant. I guess the difference is advice when you want it vs unsolicited advice - the latter annoys me in some other contexts for sure :angry:

As for arrogance in Go, I have not perceived much of it :man_shrugging: Some opponents brag about their rank or tournament performance, and certain forum members come across rather arrogant (no names mentioned but I wonder if you know who I mean). But the majority are kind, polite, and especially humble. This forum is the most welcoming online community I have found - the rest are just spam and/or trolls :laughing: So I would say, in my experience, the Go community is more humble and less arrogant than wider society even.

As for whether arrogance ruins Go for me, no. Instances are infrequent enough that I find I can just ignore them. Plus, nothing could ever ruin Go - it’s just too good! :wink: I mean, even if y’all became super arrogant overnight, I’ll just play KataGo instead (OK, fine, GnuGo :rofl:)

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