is there a forum for this?
is there a forum for this?
As in would you like a thread for ideas on how to beat the bots or?
yes, ideas about how to beat the bots. thanks
(Apparently GIT GUD is not a complete sentence)
OK, I guess I should expand, because that seems snarky or dismissive of the question. I guess my first question would be - which bot? Because the discussion around AmyBot (25kyu) or GnuGo (7kyu) is going to be very different than say KataGo (9dan). What levels of bot are you playing? What strategies do they seem to keep coming back to, and how can you use that knowledge to try to plan your strategy accordingly.
Also, sure - many bots are vulnerable because they can be really bad at spotting false eyes and groups that are in danger of dying because they may not be able to make two eyes. I’ve seen a lot of dan players in the 1-4 dan range be able to win games repeatedly against evenly matched bots because the human player creates then chases weak groups, is able to play moves that deny eye-space - so then the bot spends most of the mid-game thinking it still has a living group, dies in endgame, and resigns.
Ok, sure that’s a tried-and-true way to beat many different bots, but it’s still probabilistic - meaning that the bot has its own whole-board-scoring algorithm (let’s say it’s similar to the OGS auto-score algo) so sometimes it will show likely-to-die-groups as alive, and sometimes it will show them as in danger, so sometimes the bot will fight for its life and sometimes it won’t.
The real question is - are the skills that one gains from those interactions something that will help them in human games? Or will it actually have a negative impact, because the human gets used to a bot being overconfident about their eye-less sticks, and then that tactic backfires against their next human opponent? Does knowing how to take advantage of the blind spots of various bots actually make one a better Go player in the long run?
Alternately, maybe another way to view this is to try and figure out what general strategies a given bot favors in their games and then level up and learn what other strategies can compete on that level. This involves so much more than just exploiting blind spots - and I think would carry over into being a stronger overall player. My 2 cents though…
I don’t think this will happen at least for intermediate levels bots.
The simple reason is that these bots are playing rated so that could introduce big distortion of the rating system.
I went myself into reporting in a forum thread some advices i found in another place on OGS. That thread was quickly shut down (made invisible) for the reason i just evoked.
may main account is rtayek. i have been using other accounts (rtayek4 rtayek3) to play bots because my vision became poor recently and i miss or hallucinate cuts and ataris, so my play has a high variance.
i want to play the 1k-2k bots., but despite their very bad moves, if i don’t make silly mistakes, i sometimes lose by 15-20 points. there are a couple of things that give me problems.
some of the bots play a 44-33 combination. the bot usually ends up with a substantial double wing formation.
any extension greater than 2 spaces almost always get invaded immediately.
the bots tend to play a lot of pushing and hane moves, this leads to complicated (for me) situations.
i do no want to trick the bot, i would rather outplay it.
you make a good point about playing against the bot, it is easy to fall into that trap.
I can’t remember when / where I saw this post on OGS, but there was a really useful post I remember seeing in the past where someone broke down the various skills / strategies and how certain ranks were better at them
Example: a 1 dan player may be better at shape and direction of play (compared to a 1 kyu, etc), but a 3 dan will have more experience at life-and-death and whole-board thinking, which is what allows them to succeed in situations where 1 dan players struggle (I’m making this up / paraphrasing)
If someone could help me find that OGS Forum thread, that would be really relevant here, because those areas would be a good place to focus your studies as you try to go from your current high SDK to 1 dan or above, etc.
Also, there have been some good forum discussions on breaking through the 1 dan barrier:
Sorry, if they keep beating you, then we can’t say their moves are very bad! Their moves are just a different style from humans of the same level.