I’ve registered on OGS, but I’m mystified as to how the site works. (I learned to play Go many years ago and I’m just coming back to it.) Just as an example, I’m given a choice among several timeout rules when I set up a game, but how can I get an explanation of them? Or all the other choices I have, such as Chinese/Japanese rules?
Welcome to the site, and welcome back to Go
You don’t have to worry too much about the settings, you can just go to the play page, click quick match, select board size and game speed, then press play enjoy
OP appears to want to know what “5m + 5s” means ( it’s not normal maths so 5m5s) and “5m + 5x30s” too. There’s nothing in that page to tell you the first is OGS syntax for Fischer time with main time and increment, and the latter is OGS syntax for Byo-yomi with main and number and length of periods. This is the tyranny of choice I warned about in the news play page design thread: if you offer people choices (or rather force them to make) then they want to understand what those choices mean before making that choice, and you can’t expect them to not worry and just choose in ignorance because “it doesn’t matter”, because the fact of offering the choice implies the site designers think it is important and needs a choice.
There certainly is. Next to each row of times, it says the rough duration of the game, that’s what the choice means. It is unfortunate that he kept the byo-yomi option which does complicate it a lot, but the explanation of what those buttons do (change the length of the game) is still there.
If you want more detailed explanations about the site’s functions, the FAQ is kept fairly up-to-date
So maybe instead of “game clock” it should say “game duration”?
I mean, no it isn’t.
If I’m asking what “5m + 5x30s” means, getting told “oh it’s about 25 minutes” doesn’t answer my question. What does it mean, and what’s the difference with the other option that’s also “about 25 minutes” since you’re asking me to choose one.
the fact of offering the choice implies the site designers think it is important and needs a choice.
Agreed, and I really think the Quick Match page should not include such choice… (in line with the overwhelming majority result of the poll).
So if both 5m + 5s and 5m + 5x30s mean the exact same thing of “~25 minutes” (nevermind that both you and I as experienced OGS users know what that timing syntax really means), why isn’t that the label of the button? And then you have 2 buttons which with the same label, which is silly.
And what q… said.
I agree that one timing option is enough and if you don’t like it then there’s custom
Yep. I specifically made my poll in addition to anoek’s to highlight how strongly the community wanted this. No idea why he kept both i don’t think we’ve ever had a more unanimous community opinion than “quick play should only use either fischer or byo-yomi, not both”
The UI/UX would also be DRASTICALLY simpler if he respected that poll, but oh well, maybe one day
Examples sites or clients where they don’t provide an explanation of every time setting right beside the time setting when setting up a game
Chess com
Shin kgs (or similar I guess with cgoban)
Lichess
I think pandanet is an exception, in that it’s a bit more verbose with Canadian byo yomi
assuming you understand what the slash means.
Essentially my point is, in Chess and Go, anyone that wants to know looks it up. We can make that lookup simpler by providing an info button that links to documentation with the explanation, but I don’t agree that the explanation belongs on the play page itself.
Can you point us back to that?
I was chatting offline with anoek, and he mentioned that “a third of the people want byo-yomi in quick match”, and my impression is that this is a weighty amount in his mind.
If we could all just agree once and for all that there’s only one time setting needed on the quick match page, it’d simplify it tremendously - in both obvious and unobvious behind the scenes ways.
It was a fifth, not a third… 84% wanted “either one or the other, not both”
And 66% said remove Fischer time control
Probably the only way to decide once and for all is a very clear poll.
Fischer removed, Byo yomi removed, keep both as is now.
No options that split the pool between I don’t mind, or imply that a change may or may not happen depending on which option you pick and if it gets a majority.
BHydden linked it.
The result of the poll was that people overwhelmingly agreed that only one option should be presented (84%).
However it is true that people were split on whether this option should be Fischer or Byo-yomi (though Fischer was ahead). I guess this is why Anoek kept both, but this ignores the consensus on a single setting being preferrable for quick match.
To be fair, some of those examples like Lichess use only one time system (with just different values), so that makes it easier.
But in any case I agree including explanations directly on the page is not the best approach, visually. An info button is fine, or some text that only display if you mouse over a “?” icon.
This misses the main point, that picking just one is more important than which one you pick.
I’m not sure I agree, but if it really turns out to be unworkable given the size of the current or future player base then sure.
I think both settings are being used very commonly in Go tournaments, and it’s worth being able to play and being familiar with both.
What was and is used in face to face tournaments is linked to the available helpers and clocks. Canadian developed over byo yomi because it need less helpers. Then Fisher came in because electronic clocks were more and more available.
That’s fine as there’s custom for that. I’m not convinced that this justifies retaining two options in auto matching.
But for me (and rather less seriously but not completely joking), the lesson of history is that we could have easily got away with ditching byo-yomi because of the bot bug thing distracting everyone!
What is Fischer and byo-yomi? Knowing how to play Go doesn’t tell me that.