Go etiquette: resignations

This makes me wonder if we should be setting rather “OGS etiquette” rather than making claims to external origins. But I guess that’s a bit tricky since the whole thing about etiquette is that it’s something evolving and outside of “rules” which accumulated collectively as a cultural thing.

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It is generally good to distinguish between etiquette, ethics, and regulations. It would probably be better to have a section on etiquette on how not to be a jerk in go rather than to try to regulate the minutiae of good behavior.

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Is this actually part of OGS etiquette then? If it is, I think I have unknowingly breached it in the past.Or maybe it depends on the stage of yose, like 2-point stage vs 15-point stage is a big difference. But then you’d need to explain that nuance, confusing novice readers even more.

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Well that’s what i learned.

The thing about giving a few words on etiquette is valuable not as enforcing anything, just as revealing some different expectations from different cultural background so that some players don’t get surprised by attitudes (words).

As long as it is clearly mentioned that OGS is not binded with it, i see it more like an opening mind on differences.

Could be Interesting to ask IGS what’s their opinion on resignation (as to me they enforce a lot on the japanese etiquette)

OGS is not a Japanese server, so we don’t have to follow the Japanese etiquette if it’s specific to Japan.

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Not to resign during yose might be an old Japanese tradition, but certainly not true in current time. I see top pros resign during yose all the time. Actually, during a commentation an old chinse 9p said pros have preference to resign during the yose, because scoring will mess up the board and delay the review.

Today’s pros tend not to resign early like before. So we don’t need to over analyze etiquette too much. :rofl:

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We do need to follow common courtesy. Also stronger players tend not to like to play weaker ones. So the weaker ones need to understand if you drag the games too long, you may not get the games with stronger ones later, thus lose the learning opportunities.

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Of course. And i’m careful on this.

Now this japanese go etiquette was debated a lot previously between OGS players so a few words in the wiki won’t hurt and help understand.

No. But reading the past debates . I’d say it seems to be included in the go etiquette of a part of the OGS users.

Interesting. Makes me think i got basics on etiquette by reading the pro games commentaries in the go world magazine.

And let me interfere, an old 9p explaining why now it’s like this make me think that before it was like that :blush: Ok, not a proof.

So do we have a new etiquette to have to resign before the scoring to avoid counting? Makes me smile afterall.

You still read Go World Magazine? Is that chinese or Japanese one?

It seems the argument to avoid going to scoring is mostly a practical concern for IRL pro games. I still don’t see a clear connection to online (mostly kyu) games on OGS, so I don’t see a clear reason to mention such etiquette for pro IRL games in OGS Docs & FAQ.

It could be noted that it is considered bad form to resign right before filling dame, but that’s about it as far as I’m concerned.

yeah, that applies to IRL games. I don’t have much experience of IRL(just played my second in person tournament. But if I know for sure I lose, I would resign to avoid scoring to save my time and the burden to count, especially I’ve never really practiced it.

In the recent tournament, my opponent and I just counted roughly. I told him I won. He was like: sure, does not matter. So we concluded the game. :rofl:

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I don’t understand the logic of being rude to resign right before filling the dame even online. It’s always a relief when myself or my opponent resigns.

The only thing I heard from pros is not to resign right after losing a big fight.

  1. It’s considered as resign in anger. So they will play some simple moves. I am guessing it is also good to take time to cool down for the review.
  2. Just in case, the judgement is wrong.

There was an interesting old custom in this case. Pros try to find another excuse to resign, like making an intentional small mistake, pretending the loss of the big fight never happened. I never understand this mindset, but very interesting. :sweat_smile:

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Offline it’s like a refuse to face the score. Telling your opponent, if you want to know, search on your own.

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Oh, does not make sense to me. It could be I just finished counting and felt comfortable to resign. I wouldn’t respect this custom.

A lose is a lose in Go. Who cares about how much?!

Sure, I’d be fine with not mentioning etiquette involved in resignation at all in any FAQ.
I think it’s difficult to explain the many subtle considerations in a way that would be readily understandable for novices. I’m afraid it would scare some novice FAQ readers that they might be breaching etiquete by certain actions or refraining from certain actions, making them even more reluctant to play against human opponents.

Thanks for the effort on this. However, the following quote is wrong and needs to be fixed: “It is also frowned upon to stall games (either with pointless moves or endless resumptions of play).” It is not frowned upon, it is absolutely prohibited under OGS policy based on the part of the TOS that talks about delaying your opponent from moving on to the next game. I do think that stalling should be spelled out in the TOS, if for no other reason than I get tired of explaining it over and over. However, I also understand and have even explained the rationale for vagueness in the TOS, as @Eugene has well covered above,

So once again, per mod team interpretations when I was moderating, three kinds of prohibited stalling exist: (1) Repeatedly restarting the game for no purpose (I once saw someone do this over 100 times). (2) Infilling one’s own territory for no purpose other than to delay the end of the game. (3) Playing a series of self-atari moves that have no purpose but to delay the game, while the opponent repeatedly passes.

Based on reports I handled, as well as long experience watching DDK games, stalling that fails to produce a “frustration win,” is very commonly followed by score cheating. As always, beginners are a special case requiring instruction.

Thanks for feedback, will adapt it right away.

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Is this really not a thing for modern players? I don’t care much about Japanese tradition, but I still get annoyed if an opponent does either of these things (both showing a disregard for opponent’s time and skill)

Edit: In contrast, a bit of etiquette that is truly outdated might be that black ought to play the first move in the top right in order to prevent white from having to reach across the board :joy:

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Why does anyone find it rude of their opponent if they resign during yose, and how is this disregard for time or skill?

Personally, I feel relieved if that ever happens. Fist-pump, “yes!!” and on to the next game…