I follow pretty much all top pro games. It does appear to me that they don’t care this etiquette much any more.
For me it’s that having gone as far as this then it seems nice to finish off and get a score and finalised kifu. If you’re going to resign at that point then it probably means you should have resigned a while ago.
3 Likes
I see that this phrasing is now in the FAQ, but the latter part seems not well phrased and hard to understand. Maybe even incorrect? Is it rude to “not resign before when the victory is very clear”?
What exactly is meant there?
I was going to ask about that one after the yose one - it seems more clearly inverted logic to me (typo/englisho?)
It’s missing a comma only I think.
it is rude to not resign before [the yose], when the victory is very clear
I think English is very poor with negatives generally.
Maybe you need to say:
It is rude to continue playing (i.e. not resign) as soon as your opponent’s victory is very clear (i.e. unavoidable)
That makes more sense. Perhaps you’re right.
But then the conclusion of the combined statement is that, when the victory is very clear, it is rude to resign during yose and it is also rude to resign before yose.
If you don’t want to be rude, what would then be acceptable timing for a resigination when the victory is very clear?
As soon as victory is very clear. But if you’ve missed that point and are now in late endgame, just keep going to the end!
Edit: But as discussed here, this is not an official position on etiquette but just one view!
1 Like
I find it quite unclear now how to avoid being rude in my resignations, and I’m not even new to go!
3 Likes
If that’s what intended with yose in these etiquette guidelines, maybe that term should be used instead of just “endgame” or yose. It would make it less ambiguous IMO (if the reader understands the distinction).
To try and be clearer (although I’m now becoming convinced that none of this matters very much at all)
It’s not that it’s rude to resign before the yose. I think the point is that if the outcome is so clear that one player should resign, this is likely to be before the yose. I don’t think it’s ever rude to resign before yose if you feel you have no chance to turn things round.
Resigning very late is maybe not so much rude as just a bit odd. e.g. wouldn’t it be weird if your opponent passed, all the boundaries are closed etc and you resign instead of passing? Why not just pass and count? And same thing just the move before that, and the previous one, etc, up to a slightly vague nearish to the end of the game.
Maybe but
I think there is some ambiguity by the nature of it. Maybe that’s why I like it. It’s quite a British feeling lack of clarity about whether or not you are doing the right thing. Perfect for us!
1 Like
Your formulation coincides with my opinion/understanding on the matter of decent resignation timing. But I feel that the text in the FAQ sends a different, harsher, yet unclear message.
Okay, you can stop discussing the formulation. I removed that bullet about Japanese resignation etiquette.
At the start of the document it seems to suggest that resignation is something to consider specifically when the borders are closed and there are no sensible moves left to play:
If there are no sensible moves to play anymore (because the borders of the territories are closed) the moment has arrived to end the game. There are two ways to end a game:
- Press the “resign” button if you have lost, or
- Press “pass” and accept the correct score (see next section) when the game is over.
I feel that the topic of resignation is adressed rather early here, and not really on-topic in a description of a regular completion and scoring of a game.
What is the target audience of this text? Mostly beginners, or all players new to OGS?
3 Likes
That’s why I prefer “resign when you can’t get any more out of the game whatever that means to you, and accept that your opponent will do this too”.
This means that if your opponent is not resigning, they are getting something out of playing. Isn’t that motivation enough to carry on as well, up to the passes?
3 Likes
I would add one thought i feel gets overlooked in this discussion frequently. Resignation is not a one sided action. The game of go is played by 2 people and both also have their part in ending the game.
Whenever one player chooses to resign it is up to the winner to accept the resignation without gloating (in a bad way, of course you can be happy) or whining about the timing of the resignation.
Everything else is also kind of rude, isn’t it? After all … havent you won already?
[please exclude from my statement all obvious bm behaviour, playing the game to scoring is always okay, informing your opponent that you wish to finish is good form]
In the facts: it is. Very rare to read someone anouncing he’s going to resign.
1 Like
1 Like
I’ve always thought the “rude to resign in yose” thing means like the very late yose when there are only handful of tiny gote moves or just dames remaining on the board. Like, if you’re so close to scoring phase, just play the few last moves and count the score.
Of course there is nothing rude on resigning earlier at any stage once you’re certain that the game has been lost. Quite often the moment when you can be sure about your loss is literally the moment when “middle-game” turns into “end-game” phase, as in when all the groups/stones on the board are either guaranteed to be alive/connected or simply dead/captured.
And also its good to remember that etiquette and rules are totally different things. Its good etiquette to keep doors open for strangers, but if you’re entering in some restricted area at your workplace then dont hold the door open for strangers to waltz right in xD
Good etiquette is always secondary objective, never the primary one. If you’re playing with someone considerably stronger and your goal is to learn from the game, then go ahead and play till the scoring, its always good to practice your end-game counting anyhow ^^
6 Likes