Go is better than chess because

Haha! Do you mean gibtc because the analogies with real life are so much more abundant and accurate?! :upside_down_face:

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It occurred to me recently that with chess, you get a feeling of accomplishment just from learning the rules, since they are just hard enough to make that a challenge. I think that might add a lot to its general popularity.

With Go, there seems to be almost nothing to learn, so there’s not much to be proud of in at least knowing the rules. And then you try to learn scoring, and you realize it’s impossible to understand Go after all.

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There is that feeling that you are so disconnected from some very simple reality. Why i am so lost when he uses so simple words to tell me what i have to do with this capturing rule?

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*inner monologue: “I have distinct memories of having learnt to count above two. Why can’t I do it in go? :thinking::thinking::thinking::thinking:… Don’t make yourself stupider than you are. I can do it. I can count above two!!” ->proceeds to play damezumari with determination

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“I got it, the tenon goes under the Ikea table just like the Golden Chicken Standing on One Leg-tesuji.” now do the same, chess analogies. See? Gibtc. :upside_down_face:

That sounds anti-intuitive to me, cuz in my understanding, the larger the board, the less significant a half point advantage is. Care to elaborate?

I just meant the AI evaluation at the game start… I 'm a grade 2 payer and on 9x9 it varies from 0.5 to 0.6 (ask me why ?!) and on 13x13 its … oops 0.5 … you are right … had remembered it wrong it seems …

Sorry!

Edit: Stones I mean… and yes I remembered it right. Earlier katago versions gave Black a 0.8 Stones advantage with 5.5 komi

grafik

Edit2 … a 9x9 game from that time (Feb 2020)

grafik

I don’t think bot evaluation at the beginning really means much to human players. 0.3 point on 13x13 is just too small for us to care about when we constantly blunder 5 points away. As a comparison, I myself have played a few 9x9 games where every move is optimal (confirmed by katago).

Also, 13x13 is so big that nobody even knows if bots can find optimal play on it, which means OGS bot evaluation isn’t fully convincing. On the other hand, despite being very far from solving 9x9 completely, we are pretty certain a bunch of 9x9 lines found by bots are optimal for both.

Ok, we are very off-topic. If anyone is unhappy with it I can move to another place.

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black or for white?

(Sorry, going OT but curious)

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Depends on the komi. OGS 5.5 komi is better for black.

My guess is with 6.5 komi under Japanese rules (territory counting) the advantage for white is less noticeable than that for black with 5.5 komi. But I’m not sure as I haven’t played many 6.5 komi games.

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They are so different that simply claiming one is better than the other doesn’t make sense. Both are fantastic games in my opinion.

Since I do understand Go a bit, chess feels more shallow than before. Simpler. Even a bit childish! But it’s still a challenging sport and great fun particularly at short time controls - playing many games in one session.

The aspect I still struggle the most with when it comes to Go: The huge demand on your humility. I regularly feel infinitely small before the game. Feeling lost somehow. And I see even dan-level players having similar emotions while playing.
With chess it’s way easier to get to a point where you feel in control. Even when you are behind/losing.

Chess is the heated pool.
Go is the dark, deep and cold ocean. Fantastic! If you can handle it.

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Because Go have made Google created Alpha Go, which become part of and bring progress to better AI application in real world. Artificial intelligence could be one of humanity’s most useful inventions.

Chess can’t do that.

Do you think Google would not have created a Superhuman AI if it wasn’t for Go?

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Because it is more “woke”:

The pieces are egalitarian rather than hierarchical.

The pieces don’t discriminate religiously.

The pieces don’t support the enslavement of animals.

:wink:

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But they exhaust nice big trees and shells…

Chess sets also use wood (or pollute with plastic, a hydrocarbon product), and vintage sets often used ivory for the white pieces.
:wink:

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Google will still create. But with slower progress. I think.

image

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Go is the same as chess because:

“This is the beauty of chess. It is a debate without words, a silent conversation (although ‘trash talking’ is a common and entertaining feature of street chess). You must put yourself in your opponent’s shoes, read them and understand them. You must assess their style, identify their strengths, learn their weaknesses and vulnerabilities, discern their strategy, predict their moves. These techniques aren’t just relevant to chess — they are life skills too. The ability to look ahead and see round corners is just as valuable in the worlds of business and politics as it is on a chessboard.”

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I played some street chess at Dupont Circle in Washington in the 1970s, and trash talk was no part of it. It’s a sign of our current times, I am sorry to say.

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