Go Zendo

[antonTobi]

There are lots of better diagram editors out there. When I want to create a diagram, I usually just screenshot an OGS demo board or Lizzie (see for instance the diagrams in this thread or this post). The only slight downside there is that I manually have to draw the rectangular region that should be captured, so the image dimensions are not consistent. That was the main reason for me creating the tool for this thread, I wanted to be able to display multiple diagrams in a grid, and that would look very ugly if they had different dimensions.

I don’t know of the top of my head any editor which has a built “export as image” feature, but I’m sure it exists If there is some interest, I could make a version of the “Zendo tool” for more general diagram creation, but it would only have the most basic features. I don’t have the skills to create a full-fledged sgf editor like @yebellz’s BesoGo, for instance.

[shinuito]

@le_4TC

When I want to create a diagram, I usually just screenshot an OGS demo board or Lizzie

I think if you compare the effort in

• having to download lizzie (especially for non-windows users)
• the mess of options for the OGS demo board feature, not to mention having to make a new demo board anytime the board size changes or possibly having to clean the variation tree (after a while it gets slow).

to using the tool you and Ruby were sharing, and then compare it to @Jirogo36’s usage which reminded me/led me to recommend this thread

@Jirogo36

(By the way, what’s a recommended software for creating such diagram—I used Inkscape, a general drawing software?)

The positions/images above look exactly like the tools used in this thread

I’ve started to learn javascript myself (kind of for work) and how to set up github page (to play with css on ogs profiles ). I could also try to host your or Ruby’s tools if that’s something you’d like but don’t want to host it yourselves

@le_4TC

I don’t have the skills to create a full-fledged sgf editor like @yebellz’s BesoGo, for instance.

I know what you mean though, one could download sabaki or other sgf editors or use the linked besogo for other features.

[yebellz]

@le_4TC

any editor which has a built “export as image” feature

I’ve been meaning to add this feature to BesoGo, but I need to figure out how to do this first. I’m thinking it could be useful to have the option to export as PNG or SVG. Currently, the board is generated as an SVG element, so the latter should be fairly straightforward I think.

[antonTobi]

What would be awesome would be a “copy as image” feature like Ruby’s tool had, which puts the image directly into the clipboard, removing the need to save a file locally. With the library I was using (p5.js) the board is a canvas element which is easy to save as PNG. I guess an extra conversion would be needed from SVG, so I don’t know how difficult that is.

[yebellz]

Yes, that would also be a nice feature to have, and it would also be nice to have that feature in @Vsotvep’s Dip Go tool.

[martin3141]

Anybody interested in revisiting this forum game? I’m thinking of a more slow-paced correspondence-like game. I can think of a rule and host a game if there are interested people!

[Feijoa]

I wasn’t involved in the earlier ones, but this looks fun.

Looking back at the posts, there wasn’t much discussion among the players vs. just submitting a bunch of guesses. I wonder if we could slow ourselves down by restricting it to one official guess at a time or something.

Also someone should link the tenth game in the top post.

[martin3141]

I have a rule, but unfortunately it looks like RubyMineshaft’s tool, which we used to generate images, has been taken down.

For now, I’ve generated Koans using Vsotvep’s Multicolor tool.

Only positions that could occur in a go game are valid (i.e. all chains must have at least one liberty).

Green Koan

Red Koan

[shinuito]

@Feijoa

I wonder if we could slow ourselves down by restricting it to one official guess at a time or something.

We can probably put the thread in slow mode if you/we wanted?

Basically users can only post once every X mins/hours.

[Vsotvep]

I think the hard part of this is that such rules do not apply to mods, and about 50% of the forum regulars is a moderator… But we can make it an honour rule to only post once per day?

[Vsotvep]

@martin3141

For now, I’ve generated Koans using Vsotvep’s Multicolor tool.

I’m wondering if this is a hint. Does your rule require multiple colours? Otherwise an OGS demo board would probably suffice as well.

---

Let me give my inquiry:

I won’t post again until whatever we’ve decided what time period we have per guess.

[martin3141]

Green!

I will try to keep the starting post updated with all revealed Koans.

I don’t know if we need a strict rule about posting frequency, maybe it is enough to note that the general intention is to be a correspondence-paced game.

@Vsotvep

Does your rule require multiple colours?

Only “normal” Go positions are valid Koans, no multicolor go (yet ^^).

[Feijoa]

@shinuito

We can probably put the thread in slow mode if you/we wanted?

That’s different from what I meant, which was that there should be more discussion among the students before we present a koan to the master (or whatever the terminology is )

[Vsotvep]

Well, I’ll profusely apologise in that case.

My current working hypothesis is that White and Black stones should not touch.

[Feijoa]

That’s a good hypothesis. But alternatively it could be about having a plane of symmetry?

I still need to go back through this thread and read all the previous solutions.

[Leira]

Link to the tool please?

[Feijoa]

Rules so far, feel free to copy to the first post. I’ll wiki it so it’s easier to grab the content.

@KAOSkonfused

All stones on the board need to be attached to the rest orthogonally (diagonally does not count).

@Barbanaira

Black and White have the same amount of liberties (not counting shared liberties double)?

@antonTobi

there is a 2x2-region with a single black stone and a single white stone, not directly adjacent to each other. (i. e. a shoulder hit shape)

@RubyMineshaft

The number of black groups >= the number of white groups if the board is a torus

@martin3141

All black stones are on the First line or all black stones are on the second line (Where the second line extends to the edge of the board) or … third line … or … fourth line …

Same for white

@martin3141

There are no three black stones forming a triangle or there are no three white stones forming a triangle

@antonTobi

Every black chain needs to have the same number of liberties as the total number of white stones.

@martin3141

count the number of white stones that are visible from the edges along the rows and compares this number to the number of visible white stones along the columns? And then the same for black stones. The numbers have to match both times for the rule to be satisfied.

@martin3141

There exists a black stone such that there exist no other stones that are in the same column or in the same row.

(i.e. there exists a black stone that is “visible” from all four edges of the board)

@Jon_Ko

The minimum of black’s liberties per chain is greater than or equal to the minimum of white’s liberties per chain?

@antonTobi

There is a black and a white stone which are exactly a knight’s move apart.

@martin3141

The empty intersections are line symmetric.

Note: I assembled this collection from the successful guesses. The master’s phrasing of the rules, if we even know it, is not relevant to science

[Feijoa]

Note that none of the rules so far have broken symmetry or explicitly invoked it. Maybe now is the time for symmetry to come into it.

Maybe we could propose a rule about it being symmetric or balanced in some way. For example, the center of mass must be on the midline, or interchanging black and white is equivalent to some rotation of the whole board all the stones.

[martin3141]

https://vsotvep.github.io/MulticolorGo.html

[yebellz]

Something simpler is just that all of the stones of each color need to be in a line.