Guess rank game

What a weird opening… And both players keep playing tenuki all over the place. It reminds me of some of the weaker bots, they’re also playing Chinese, which makes that a likely thing.

I’m going to guess 5k.


I’ll say 3k

Thought I’d join in on the fun and provide a game to guess.

Welcome back c:

This looks like the fighty 2d meta.

Alright, then I shall reveal the previous game.

12k - Kaworu_Nagisa
11k - Lord_o_o_Spoon
7k - bugcat
5k - Vsotvep
3k - Assai

And the answer is…


9p! … at least theoretically. Sorry for hoodwinking you guys…


Moves 3 - 26 are a sequence suggested by ELF OpenGo v2 after a million playouts of move 2, posted to the OGS forums in April 2019 by mark5000: ELF OpenGo weirdness


ELF OpenGo v2 gives that position an astounding 43 % for black. I played out the rest of the game with KataGo courtesy of ZBaduk, who sees black at 35 % at that point (LeeLa Zero even says 29 %). I always played KataGo’s favourite move once it had at least 12,000 playouts and was preferred to its second-favourite move by at least 0.3 pp decision and 0.3 pp winrate (which often meant much higher playouts, up to 1.7 million in one case). Here’s my OGS demo board relay:


Screenshot (the red line is LeeLa Zero’s winrate, but I only ever played KataGo’s moves):


Technically, Assai was closest, but Vsotvep gets second place for guessing it was a bot game. The bronze medal goes to Kaworu_Nagisa, whose answer constitutes the minimum amount of playouts for each move. :wink:


If anyone who guessed a rank lower than their own (by sixteen stones in Kaworu_Nagisa’s case) would like to fork a position and play it out as an unranked correspondence game against me relaying KataGo’s moves, I would very much welcome that. :slight_smile:


Woah! That’s so interesting. Do you think this means the “kosumi shimari” is playable?

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As a 12k, I have absolutely no idea :slight_smile:

If you’re wondering why we all guessed really low, it’s because no reasonably strong amateur (sdk+) would play like that.

I guess “tenukis everything, doesn’t play joseki and plays non-conventional moves” means you’re either DDK or an above-pro bot.

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so ddk may be closer to the truth than anyone else :thinking:

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Both players are humans, played on 2014 (so no strong bot at that time)


Kinda tough…

I’ll say 7k. Nice shapes a lot of the time, but too greedy.

hmmm… looks like a game between two low dans/high sdkyus that are bored and having fun. I wouldn’t expect mid-low kyu to have tactics like that. I’ll go with 2dan? also bugcat, the game I linked was between two tygem 4dans so somewhere around 2dan other servers. nice guess!

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I’m trying to try to follow, but I’m not clear on this yet: low rank is TPK, high rank is SDK and dan, low SDK is 9, high SDK is 2, low dan is 2, high dan is 7?

(numbers are just examples)

The rank spectrum increases like this:

Kyu ranks: 30k up to 1k
Dan ranks 1d up to 9d
Pro ranks 1p up to 9p

There are subtleties: not all websites / federations use all the lower kyu ranks (and OGS actually adds some to the bottom); not all websites / federations use all the upper dan ranks (especially 9d is often omitted); pro ranks can be gained but never lost, unlike amateur ranks.

TPK stands for “twenty-plus-kyu” and refers to ranks below 19k.
DDK stands for “double-digit kyu” and refers to all the ranks below 9k – TPK is a subset of DDK.
SDK stands for “single-digit kyu” and refers to the ranks 1 - 9k (inclusive).

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6dan? Just guessing, like last time. :slight_smile: I like this guessing game, but as a 12kyu I can’t really tell how Dans play.

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I would be surprised if DDKs had played the sequence from Move 6 to Move 13, since that (whilst simple) has an SDK / dan look about it shapewise.

Move 14 seems pretty awful, though, so I’d struggle to say dan, and then White plays a lot of bad exchanges on the right side.

White also seems to play quite badly in the top left corner. Overall the game is hard to judge since I feel that Black should be higher-ranked than White in this game.

I guess I’ll say they’re 8k, since Kaworu took 7k.

Thanks for the detailed post, but maybe my question wasn’t asked correctly: I know the ranks, I don’t understand the “low” and “high” as mentioned here. Low/high stands for number or hierarchy? It’s not used consistently and I’m confused.

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Different people use it in different ways; I can’t help you :stuck_out_tongue:

People and ways… Every problem can be traced to those two, ugh. :yum: