Or maybe just irrelevant to the end result?
I guess I’ll say 8 kyu then
A very weird and boring game. Seems fake. 14k
I’m fairly sure that the players are at least as strong as I am (5-6k.) If you move past a superficial analysis of the game based on the orthodoxy of the opening moves, their play is basically good. There are a lot of moves that make good shape – the keima slides, the one-space jumps, the two-space bases. Consider the top right corner, for instance: a joseki is played correctly, and later at move 20 White makes a fine response that detects the pushing threat and fixes it actively. Notice also move 31, where Black pushed along the top in order to prevent White from making a strong tiger’s mouth there. These are players who understand shape. There is only one move in the first fifty that I would feel comfortable to call a mistake by my understanding of the game and that’s move 42, which seems like some fairly small endgame being played whilst there’s an urgent situation on the bottom side.
Overall, I got the sense that both players had an understanding of good and bad shape, joseki, and how to move groups around the board. But they also appeared prone to “trying too hard” (like White invading the bottom side and then just taking minor points in the corner instead of settling the group.) That sort of play, making “stingy” moves instead of allowing the game to flow naturally, to me seems uncharacteristic of dan players.
I guess that the players are 3k.
some of their opening and middle game move is 4-5 kyu-ish. Some of their reading is DDK (for a 40 min game). Considering this is OGS (and not Tygem), I would lean toward 4-5 kyu and overall I would say they both would be ranked 6-7kyu.
I get the feeling they’re not really trying in the game especially in the endgame. I looked back at my 12k era game and realized they were probably much better than 12k that I previously guessed. Maybe 6k? They also rarely tenuki but maybe that’s because they’re playing themselves. But I feel like if they’re dan level player I would’ve seen more moves that are beyond my imagination.
Not really, it was a pretty specific range. I was in the 12k - 8k range, which is why I left that lil note that if it’s a SDK , it’s a weak one because I think they’re near the SDK border. I’ll just go with 10k then
I’m also kinda stunned at how even dan players here can think these guys are dan or at least have dan-level reading. The game is horrendous. I guess being able to guess the rank doesn’t correlate to your actual playing strength because I’m very sure whatever rank these guys are that they are not dan players, assuming no trolling was done in their play, and if they are then I’ve lost faith in OGS’ ranking system because they are the weakest dans I’ve ever seen then.
mmm… Why would you make that assumption? Isn’t the very first move a hint?
They’re decidedly not ddk or weak sdk, as can be seen from the following exchanges:
19-20, 24-25 (old joseki), 28 (complex joseki move, though b played simplest variation), 32 (unusual but ‘does the job’, vying for sente), 33 (i doubt many kyu players would tenuki), 57-63 (looks weird, but settles b’s group), 120 (instead of pushing further, w plays solidly, settling his group, not a kyu characteristic).
However, in addition to the moves I hinted at earlier, there is 191 (M9 instead of Q8 kills white’s stones, b loses 8 points), 235 (not a point) and probably more that I missed.
I have a question, for move 69, would playing r7 be more fierce (by threatening to take away eye space?) @smurph
@smurph I admire your confidence. I still have a doubt myself.
One interpretation for 191 and other yose moves: black already knows that he/she has won the game. That would make black an extremely strong yose player (which is why I mentioned AI a couple posts earlier).
@spatula I think black is trying to keep sente and move back to the top left.
btw, to add to @smurph 's list, move 72 at S6 is not typical of kyu-level play.
Playing unorthodox alone doesn’t prove anything. Playing unorthdox only makes it all the more clearer how weak/strong you are because there is no standard play to refer to.
@smurph You are giving way too much credit. Seriously? Using 24-25 and 28 as evidence is very weak. 24-25 is not that unpopular to give credit for simply knowing it exists. and for 28, most SDKs at least know how to play the crosscut variation up to 10 moves in at least which is very straightforward. The variations after that are also not numerous enough to even call ‘complex’ compared to many other josekis.
To add, 144 was also terribly inefficient.
You guys are all trying too hard in outsmarting OP by overthinking things and thinking it’s a 1-player game or that one or both the players are trolling in a fake game. Assuming OP took a real game played on OGS, the only trolling that will happen is if 1 person sandbags the other player. Looking at the game and the result, it’s quite clear both players are pretty close, if not equal, in rank. If OP lied, your assessment is still valid because you judged it from the game. OP is only cheating himself if he lied about the premise.
@hiryuu so maybe your turn to provide some specifics (move numbers) to back your statement? Just labelling the game horrendous doesn’t prove much.
If you are as strong as your rank indicates you are, I don’t have to. Many others have already pointed out the clear bad moves. Many moves were also missed, but it’s easier to cover the ones that were played that were bad,
I am not as strong, so please do. I am actually stronger
This is your third time looking for excuses.
You clearly are trying to start something. Right, you are stronger than your rank on OGS, hence all the more you don’t need my hand-holding in showing you the answers. Your provocations won’t work. All you have to do is look up through the posts others have mentioned and those are not any mistakes a 2-dan drunkard will make. You can find the answers yourself. I don’t need to make excuses. I’m flat out saying that I don’t feel like it. I put in whatever effort I feel like offering in my posts and the lack of that does not disprove anything especially when it’s clear as day. I need no validation or approval from you to do so, so take it as an excuse if you wish.
This is going to be my only post in this argument, but if you make a claim then you carry a burden of proof which can be called at any time. If specifics are asked for, you have to provide specifics rather than any sort of obfuscation.
Actually, I feel somewhat convinced by @smurph that they are probably stronger than low sdk (though I’m not convinced they are dan level). move 120 is indeed very clam and its something I missed when I looked at the game the first time… I think @S_Alexander should reveal the answer soon. It would be really sad if the player/players didn’t put in full effort in the game in order to trick us into guessing incorrectly/make sure that the game ends with 0.5 point difference.
I’m not as strong as you but what’s a better alternative to 144?