First at all, you Still did not understand my Simple question, Brad. IF you understood a simple question you would have saved yourself being upset from my continuously asking for re do’s. For low ky’s people ask. Not a big deal. I am asked and I have no problem helping since I know that sometimes our fingers in the computer slips. There is No need to go looking into my profile. My question does not require such. Hmmmm

@Interestinggame, there’s no need to be insulting toward people that are genuinely trying to help.

It seems like you asked a similar question in the past, which was answered in this other thread that you started:

As for this specific observation:

The “17k” displayed next to a players name is not necessarily the same as the actual underlying estimated rank used to calculate handicap stones. There is uncertainty and rounding errors that makes that misleading, as explained in other posts, such as: Handicaps and Automatic handicaps


K I will make one more try as everyone here seems to understand your question. Lets look at my profile page now

Now I have highlighted three boxes. In a red box is the global rating used for matchmaking. Here I have a rating of 1259 with a variance of 69. This means the system currently thinks my rating is somewhere between 1190 at worse and 1328 at best. This is because the glicko number is NEVER a fixed number it is always a bell curve of probability.

I have also highlighted my current kyu rating in a purple box. This says I am currently 17.8 kyu but with a 1.7 variance so between 16.1 kyu and 19.6 kyu. This is rounded up to the closest for ‘actual’ rating so my current displayed rating in a game is 18 kyu - as can be seen in the Green box.

Now the RED box is used for matchmaking not the GREEN or PURPLE boxes. You keep using the 18kyu in the GREEN box whereas you should be looking at the RED or at least purple.

Let us say I play someone with rating of 1500 and a 200 point variance so the system thinks this (14 kyu?) is between 140 and 1700 points. If he is matched against me then this might be an even game as my best rating is higher than his worse so we might be similar. Should I win then this will be confirmed and my rating will increase and my variance will decrease.

Take another example. I play someone with a rating of 1500 but a variance of 50. The system thinks this persons range is between 1450 and 1550. If they play me then I may get one stone as the system expects this person to be stronger. If I win this then I have beaten a stronger opponent BUT I had a stone advantage so it may be regarded as an even win…

Both the opponents listed above could be listed as 14 kyu but with very different handicaps.

Finally take note of the ratings before the game as they are adjusted immediately after (hence all the weird 'beat/lost stronger/weaker weirdness you can see).

SO in summary using a single Kyu figure means you have not got a clue what the matchmaking actually should be and ANY comment made is irrelevant. If you MUST use Kyu then use the 18.3 kyu ±1.7 from the profile page but better still the actual rating (less rounding and more accurate).

Hopefully someone who wrote the code can confirm as the figures above are examples from glicko2 systems I have written in the past. I also am assuming the global figure is used and not the individual 1919 , 99 etc etc.


This is correct; the only rating that matters is the overall rating. The others are purely cosmetic.


I will try this another way.

You get a “handicap of 1” if your difference in rank is 1kyu.

If you are a STRONG 17kyu and your opponent is a WEAK 16k the difference in your ranks is LESS THAN 1 kyu, in fact you are nearly the same strength. So you don’t get any handicap.

(see that quoted up there: probably the best way to say it)






Regarding passing in a ranked game to give a handicap, I can understand why this is undesirable, but there does not seem to be any alternative if someone wants to run a tournament with handicaps (13 x 13 and 9 x 9 tournaments: how would auto handicap work for large rank differences?):

  • auto handicap for tournaments seems to be broken, there was a post about this over a year ago that did not seem to get any resolution (Is auto handicap on tournaments broken?). I was told recently that it still isn’t working.
  • there doesn’t seem to be any option to make tournament games unranked, they seem to be ranked by default.