Help with escapers

I don’t think it’s a bad idea necessarily, maybe some people would click a resign button if it really popped up and cover half the screen.

Maybe the people you find annoying though wouldn’t because maybe some people are ok with annoying their opponent by leaving their clock running.

Do you not think if you have legitimate reasons like simul games that you might want an option to turn this off?

Are these really obtuse responses or are the only non-obtuse responses something like “I wholeheartedly agree”? :slight_smile:

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I’d like to think that this is an overly pessimistic view of the userbase. I’d argue that the vast majority of escapes come from users who don’t understand that closing their tab or browser window doesn’t end their game.

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I don’t really believe that. Optimistically I would rather believe that they don’t realise it’s rude and wasting their opponents time when they let their clock run out.

I’m not sure why anyone would think that navigating away and starting a new game or closing a tab would end the game.

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Does it make sense to you that closing a live game tab or window wouldn’t end the game? It seems a perfectly reasonable assumption to me…

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Yeah it does make sense to me. It would be fairly poor design if my tab crashed, my internet disconnected and I needed to refresh or so on and that just ended the game on me.

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Intuitively my assumption would be that it’s equivalent to a disconnection.

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But that’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking at intentionally closing the window. Crashes and disconnects are a complete different topic.

They’re semantically different, but how does the website know the difference between your internet breaking, your browser crashing, you intentionally closing the tab etc

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Also I may very well close my tab by accident, and intuitively I wouldn’t expect that to cause an automatic loss without being able to come back.

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Because in one instance you click a button triggering a browser event, and in the case of a crash or disconnection the event doesn’t get triggered.

If I may, I encounter many people who don’t understand how a browser works, other than how to post on FB. And I don’t mean grannies, I mean everyday people.

I don’t know how many of them are on OGS, but it’s good to remember that sometimes our seasoned tech-savvy understanding might not be the most common.

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(Now I’m trying to remember when I first came to OGS if I thought closing the tab meant ending the game. I don’t remember, and that’s my 1-person survey results that it could be either way.)

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I can understand keeping the tab open for live games, although I close my tabs accidentaly all the time and I get disconnected multiple times in a day.
However, if I weren’t allowed to even navigate away from the tab (eg check my calendar, read a news flash, doodle) I wouldn’t play at all.

As for marking the end of he game, unless a “resign” or “finish” button was clicked, I would expect the game to continue until it timed out naturally, by the chosen clock. If there was a disconnection or other accident, I would have to live with it.

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I personally don’t like that we require folks to be in the tab at all times. I’ll often try to sneak a few correspondence moves in when my opponent is thinking, and I don’t think that’s such a bad thing. I come right back as soon as I see the black dot has my opponent’s move.

I totally agree we should penalize repeat offenders that permanently disconnect/timeout. However I believe our attempts to prevent leaving the tab do more harm than good.

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I think it’s quite a different situation though. I think we can make allowances for people that don’t know where the notifications are, or can’t find the call moderator or undo button or so on. Certain things aren’t intuitive too anyway. Like not finding something, not knowing how a ladder works, the automatch and play pages are confusing and so on, they seem reasonable to factor into a discussion to me.

But expecting the game to end when you leave the page or close the tab is more like expecting that other people can’t see your Facebook page when you don’t have it open, or that Facebook might delete your profile if you close the tab.

I don’t think one can assume that the majority of people will and do make a number of silly assumptions either and base functionality off of that.

I take offense to this.

How is it a “silly assumption” to think that closing a window where you’re playing a real time game with another person would end the game?

It doesn’t take much insight to look at our escape reports and see that the majority of disconnects are from new players assuming this very thing.

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Hm, I don’t think it’s silly if it’s different from your assumption.

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It’s not silly because it’s different from my assumption, it’s silly because it’s making an assumption and assuming your own assumption to be correct.

If I assume that I can say anything offensive I want in a chat, and my opponent shouldn’t get offended because it’s just a game, that’s a silly assumption.

If I assume that I can do whatever I want on my profile and not many people can see it, so it’s probably fine and not against the sites terms of services then that’s a silly assumption.

If I make an assumption that could likely be incorrect and act based on that incorrect assumption, that can be deemed “a bit silly” whether I or anyone else thinks it’s reasonable or not.

I think we’re arguing for the sake of arguing now.

As so often the case, this thread lacks a foundation of facts (except for Uberdude’s posts) on which to base a rational discussion.

First, escaping is very common and is greatly hated by the community, as indicated by reports, past discussions, and simple observation.

Second, players do not need to escape to play simuls, to watch other games, or to do anything else.

Third, escaping is already prohibited under the TOS, which bars players from acting “in a manner that negatively affects other users’ ability to … use Services provided by Online-Go.com” (because escaping prevents someone from moving on to their next game). It would be better if the TOS were explicit about escaping, but it isn’t, which may contribute to ignorance on the subject (this has been discussed in the past).

Fourth, reported escapers typically receive at least two warnings and then are banned. In some cases, more warnings are given. Some players do get banned—in other words, they are helll-bent on escaping.

Fifth, players escape for a variety of reasons: revenge, ignorance, and as a cheating technique (they come back in the hope the opponent has left).

The pop-up idea is appealing, but of limited value. It will educate players who are ignorant but good-hearted (mainly new players and some veterans who have so far avoided a reprimand). To be clear, many players do stop escaping after they have been warned. If the pop-up mentions that escaping is a bannable offense, it may also deter some of the vengeful, who are, in my observation, by far the most numerous offenders.

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I’m assuming my assumption is a possibility available to people who are not necessarily silly.

I don’t understand why you are getting so heated over a possibility being legit, but OK :woman_shrugging: