I often play this joseki or see it being played by others: Play Go at online-go.com! | OGS
and sometimes (well, rarely, but it happens), my opponent will play F. The OGS Joseki Explorer says “F is a common kyu mistake, but can be an option in a late-game fight.”
But what’s the best way to answer F? As that sentence implied, it must be possible for white to answer F in a way that has a better outcome than the “correct” joseki, but so far I’ve failed to find that variation.
Can a stronger player please enlighten me?
F is atari. Just connect your stone. The result is bad for Black. Either Black sacrifices S16, in which case it would obviously have been better to not play it at all, or Black captures S17 but Black gets torn apart, which is almost always extremely bad.
F “can be an option in a late-game fight”, especially if Black can sacrifice Q16 and then kill White, or save Q16 and then kill White. Or something. But that means Black has to be extra-extra-extra-thick all around this position.
That makes sense. IF one understands this is the situation. Which I don’t. To me it looks like black plays Q18 now and neither sacrifices S16 nor gets torn apart.
This seems a bit exaggerated, as white Q18 is not sente.
I would say black profit is small (and low)and white influence interesting. Not a big advantage especially if black has more stones around to negate it.
Black can play Q18 to connect under, but the territory is very small (around 8 points) and low, whilst White has fairly good shape and influence on the outside worth more than that.
Playing Q18 would also remove the option to play a ladder breaker elsewhere on the board.
(though it may be better for Black to play Q18 in sente, depending on the board.)
In addition, Black’s stones are inefficient compared to what White has gained for the same number of stones in the group facing the outside.
(on this open board – Black stones neutralising the influence can reduce the value or even put the White group in danger with enough thickness/extra stones in the area).
Although this is a mistake (generally), it’s quite possible for people of the level who don’t know why to then go and make bigger mistakes in the follow up and end up making the white group heavy and getting a bad result. Although black is low he is alive, whilst white doesn’t have clear eyes or territory yet so the group can come under attack later.
To me it looks like black plays Q18 now and neither sacrifices S16 nor gets torn apart.
