How to deal with this DarkGo black pattern


#1


I was moving white, not sure what’s the best next move after black 9; black can extend left side while attack left-top white. Does that mean white 8 is not a good move?


#2

You don’t have to take the corner. There are options :slight_smile: I posted a variation, hope it helps!


#4

Looks a good choice. Thanks!


#5

The example above seems a bit submissive. The kind of move you make when you regret what has already been played.

White can play that approach and attachment. E.g., Kobayashi Koichi played it in a title match (which he lost, but still). Most examples I’ve found are similar to that one - white leans on a black stone (move 16 in example) to avoid getting surrounded, and then counter-pincers.

If white doesn’t like the way that turns out, rather than playing the attachment and then backing off, white should just play a different approach in the first place. The two-space low approach is the most common way of handling black’s formation. The idea is to block black’s expansion on the top while still leaving enough room to invade on the left.


#6

When I posted it, I was careful not to claim that it is absolutely better or worse than other choices, or that while should play this or another variation.

This is where I have to disagree with you, @Lunae_Lumen. To back off is not submissive, it is joseki. Black is slow to enclose the corner, while white has to suffer a bad exchange. Whether to play it or not is a matter of preference.

Yes, the far approach is also a popular variant. As @Rororolll was specifically asking about the high approach and whether it was bad, my example illustrates: it is a viable move. :slight_smile:


#7

I think move 8 was a good move, maybe even best. ps.waltheri.net shows that pros played it 86 times with good success. AlphaGo plays it in response to the kobayashi too. The game variation looked fine to me until move 22, which I consider wrong direction. A pincer like L16 or approaching from the inside at O17 could be stronger moves.


#8

I was going to ask if you had any examples from pro games, but @mark5000 linked a site with the answer. I still don’t see how that is good enough for white, but apparently it is.

Nice to see a good up-to-date database search website. I’ve been working with a database I picked up on CD in 2010, which means it is a bit outdated and rather sparse. Also, I apparently still have no idea what I’m doing. Oh, well.


#9

You played very well. I kinda imitate your moves against DarkGo. I was black. https://online-go.com/game/8756708