how to develop strategic play after the opening

I’ve been struggling for over a year to play in the middle game on a 19x19.
My Tsumego is much stronger at 10k on Tsumego Hero.
I am reasonably strong on 9x9.

I tend to get boxed on a 19x19 game, in and the result of the game is settled after about move 40. I cant see the way to play after the initial scramble to secure the corners and sides - after about move 20.

This is a good example - its on my mucking about account.

AI suggests move O6 at move 41, easy in hindsight, not obvious in the moment.

How does one develop the ability to play more strategically , all board awareness ?
What exercises have helped you develop this skill ?

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O6 would be awful for a DDK.

For a DDK, it’s too late to do anything about the bottom left moyo, IMO.

You needed to handle that before it got that far.

It’s not actually true that you are doing OK in the first 20 moves - in fact, things go bad for you at move 13.

Move 13 says “this player does not yet know ‘The Basics’”

The good news is that there’s really good help for this part: it’s “The Basics”

Either Dywrin’s “basics series” or Clossius’s “basic flow formula” tells you how to find the right move at move 13, and set yourself up to not be facing a moyo like the bottom left.

I reckon look those up, see if they “just make sense” or if you have questions specifically about them. It ought to take you far - at least 15k or so.

You can try this idea, since it doesn’t really exist in the 9x9 because the board is smaller and the idea of influence is not really valid.

Try to visualise lines between your stones that rest high (4rth line and above) on the board and do the same for your opponent. This usually reveals where to expand or where to invade (because otherwise your opponent would expand there).

In this example, supposing you play tengen, then it theoretically pushed your lines to k10. Of course this doesn’t make all those places your point, but it expands your influence and it sets you an extra stone which can help you invade the opponent’s line of influence (in this case, you can later play d10).

EDIT:
I just realised that you are white in the game. In this example, Black plays next.

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On both colors stones are too close to each other. Every group is overconcentrated.
Almost no attempts to invade before its too late.

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I am worried I have been at 20k ish for too long and that I cant get my brain to sharpen up and play differently.

I’m really struggling with playing for influence. I see some people just chucking stones in the centre but it is how to make use of them. I also have a blind spot as its been drilled into me that you should only play 3rd and 4th line moves - at what point does that stop and its ok to play more center moves ?

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The Basics answers this question :stuck_out_tongue:

The answer is “when there are no more big moves on the side”.

What’s a big move: watch Dwyrin :slight_smile:

(Perhaps as simple as “no more gaps in the side bigger than 4 spaces”)

I’m really struggling with playing for influence.

I don’t think that “playing for influence” is a DDK concept.

Just think about “where am I going to make territory? How does this move increase my final territory? How does it reduce my opponent’s final terriory?”

What is the answer for Move 14, white L15?

At Move 14, black appears to be saying “I will have the whole right side please”.

How does L15 counter that huge claim? What counter claim does it make?

Couldn’t white claim a huge area down the bottom at this time? Or challenge the right by playing in there? (*)

This is “Basic Thinking”…

(*) the AI is saying "before even thinking about side territory, you need to secure this corner, otherwise your top stones might die or live small, which is also Basic Rule #1: corners first - which both players ignored from turn 9 :wink: But you beat your opponent to getting that corner in the end :slight_smile:

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But what about for a DDK playing a DDK :wink:

I think it’s totally valid to try to reduce that massive area (even at this point in the game and skill level).

Tho i agree, there are many opportunities for it before move 41

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Were you black or white in the game?

So I assume you were white (‘rdomucka’)?

In the opening and early middle game:

  • Don’t add stones to a group which is already safe: moves 18, 20, 22, 26, 44, 46
  • Defend your weakest group: at move 26, 44, 46, 48… you should defend R6
  • Don’t attack stones from your opponent if you can’t kill and only make small profit in gote: moves 38, 40, 42

The idea of O6 is that R6 is weak, so you should defend it. So O6 jumps fast into the center. You might not be able to save all your stones, it’s possible that R6 will get killed, but at least try to have living stones in the area.

At every move, analyze which groups (yours and your opponent’s) are weak and which groups are strong. Sometimes you’ll find weaknesses that can’t be exploited immediately but will be important later in the game.

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Initially all you need to do is just actively engage in trying to break the habit, compared to trying to play “the optimal move”.

Locate the move you’d usually play and actively try to find another, based on a different plan.

For example, I used to have “testing phases” where I’d try particular fuseki or particular moves (e.g. “always invade 3-3” or “always pincer”) and see what happens. By challenging players that have higher ranking that you, then you’ll get some “free lessons” organically on why your move was correct or wrong or if it had a weakness that someone slightly better than you can exploit or not. And thus you slowly improve :slight_smile:

Try to build area with them or envision those lines. I had a similar issue in a game that is ongoing now. What would you choose as white? A or B?:

If we are playing on a smaller board, A is the best choice.
In 19x19 supposedly B is the better choice because you have to push your opponent towards your wall/influence and develop on the other side (“walls are not mean to be defended, but be staging grounds for an attack”)

Here is the board at the moment:

I haven’t really attacked the marked stones yet, but I am working on it, slowly, and as you can see there are quite a few “juicy” moves on the board. Meanwhile, do notice the the “points” that black got by expanding towards my goal, where somewhat compensated by me getting a big moyo on the lower right.

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I dunno - I’m not convinced that it is a good way to encourage a 19k to think about it.

I was trying to take the eyes away from “what the AI said” (which does not have DDK reasoning) and focus on how a DDK can think.

Top of the list in Basic Thinking is “don’t let that moyo get there in the first place”.

Dwyrin says time and again “people often ask me ‘how can I reduce this moyo’ and I point out that the right question is ‘what did I do wrong that allowed this moyo?’”

All out invasion is very secondary in terms of “learning basic strategy”.

And ahead of “invade like this” could have been “reduce for profit”.

Instead of R6 at turn 23, which says "fark, this moyo is big, I better throw something down here desperately, white could have said “how can I make more territory while threatening this moyo a bit?”

That quickly leads to J8. A DDK is going respond to that by defending the moyo entrance - K8?

Now white has lots of good options. He can build a wall upwards, happy that he’s making nearly as much per stone as black. Even better if white exchanges J7 K7. Now white can K9 and push upwards making more territory per stone than black.

So while it’s “totally valid to try to reduce a massive area that your DDK opponent may not be able to prevent you from doing”, it’s not “Basic Thinking”, which is more territory based, and less reading-and-fighting.

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At move 24, if you don’t want to fight inside your opponent’s moyo, you can also consider a reduction instead of the invasion R6.

The stones 1, 3, 5, 7 on the above diagram are light, you don’t have to save all of them. The goal is to establish a presence, get a few living stones than can escape, while a few stones can be sacrificed. Later you may be able to invade around A.

The goal of a reduction is to let your opponent make territory, but to limit its expansion. Allow him to make points, but not too many. You’ll be able to make points elsewhere to compensate.

How to choose between an invasion and a reduction is not always obvious. A general principle is that an invasion is advisable if it weakens your opponent’s stones, otherwise a reduction is often enough. But maybe the concept is a bit too advanced at this stage. I suggest to have a look at this page

and try it in your games.

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Read ‘Opening Theory Made Easy’ by Otake Hideo. Your mistakes aren’t just “after opening”, but during opening and understanding how the opening sets up what to do next and this book is a good one for that for your level.

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I recommend you “lessons in the fundamentals” a book oriented on middle game but not only.
Another one is “attack and defense” A bit more specific but start with the first one.

Your game shows that you have much more to explore as the middle game so in fact many go books would be adequate so if you like reading…

Have fun

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I like this idea. I have just started trying out hane-double-hane just after a 3-3 invasion. I have now followed this a couple of times and it has lead to be killing the corner inavsion, gaining both influence and territory.

I found out this play by working though a game I played against a supporter and watching for the AI move suggestion. I did not realise that if you select the AI move it shows you all the follow up moves as well.

Whilst I dont always understand the AI moves, the ones I do understand are helpful.

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not easy learning from GO books, it often involves a lot of page turning to read the text about a diagram on a different page etc. I need to be able to try things out and repeat.

Do you know if there are lectures on youtube that follow “lessons in the fundementals” or especially Opening theory made easy.

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If you want the most efficiency you maybe should put the stones on a wood board for each position so be from a video or a book, not that much differences…

I watch sometimes videos but mostly commented games now. I read the books before that. Not saying they aren’t interesting online lectures, I just don’t know well that side. Lessons in the fundamentals is recommended by many players, one of the most popular go books for some reasons.

I do recommend it many times when people want to move up from a step in their progression, to refresh or rethink some ideas they got on the game. Attack and defense is more for people who want to focus more precisely on the middle game itself.

Anyway, according to your game you could be interested in almost all you could find about go theory if you have fun reading or watching. Never hurt. Between games, reviews of your own games with a stronger human player and a bit of solving problems.(The 2 most rewarding activities besides playing IMHO)

Something which is so easy to neglect try to visualize in your brain everything as much as possible, and to put sequences only for confirming when you are sure of them. I mean if you want some significant progress. If you find them with the same constraints as when playing, there are much higher chance you’ll find them again in your next game.

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I have the same complaint with Go books, which is why when it came to writing one I had the “design rule” that each diagram will be discussed “then and there”. You know the rules so you can ignore the first chapter, but you might find the later ones useful. You can download the book for free, from here:

The big advantage a game review or a book provides compared to the AI is context. I can rarely understand the moves the AI suggests or I understand that you need to have “AI strength” to pull them off, so most of them are not for me. On the other hand simple concepts/examples like these might help you understand the reasoning behind the moves/choices.

Things like, which side to pick:

Why some moves are joseki:

Or, if/when a tenuki should be considered:

…and thus what was previously explained as joseki, now we see cases where we can leave those moves unplayed and chase some other opportunity.

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OP was asking for online “lecture” instead of books, not mentioning AI use in this context.

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There are probably lectures on YouTube on the subject, not sure if they follow these books specifically. However I’d still suggest to read the books and to replay the sequences on a real board. If you don’t own a real board and don’t plan to buy one, you can also use an OGS demo.

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I never know what to say when people don’t take that much in consideration the real quality of a study but still ask more for ergonomic features. A large majority of these books from a few decades ago are still very valuable, written under the supervision of japanese professionals motivated to offer the best to promote go to the western countries.

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