Hypothesis - Tips: The Main Difference Between TPK--DDK--SDK--Dan

General Go Discussion
21

I’m really enjoying all contributions here.
Still I’m quite confused because I feel myself like a high DDK (I’m actually 11k on EGD), I’m quite stable now as a low SDK on OGS (7k today, upper than 10k since months) and I recognise my weaknesses but also something of my skills in almost all descriptions above, included low dans! :slight_smile:

I bet I will understand more the more I’ll improve, but still I have this question buzzing in my mind: are we sure that DDK, SDK, shodan on OGS (and their description as above) are actually the same in real life?
As an example: I would lower all Issho’s descriptions by one step. When he talks about “Strong SDK (3k - 1k)” I see behaviour of “Weak SDK” that I met.
Of course I’m weaker than all of them, so maybe it’s just my fault! :slight_smile:

Anyway congrats to @dittlieo for his sharp thinking and judgment also on stronger players.
To me stronger players are “just too strong”! :wink:

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22

Let’s not forget to also consider the differences between TDK (triple digit kyu) and TPK (20+ kyu)…

Skills that a TPK will have mastered that are missing from the TDK repertoire:

  • Recognizes that stones have been captured and can correctly remove them from the board.
  • Able to recognize and avoid illegal moves, like ko and suicide.
  • Does not move already placed stones (except for removing captures).
  • Does not play more than one stone per turn (except to signal a resignation).
  • Does not place their opponent’s stones on the board (except to signal a resignation).
  • Correctly places stones on the intersections rather than centered on the squares.
  • Does not try to stack stones on top of other stones when making a move.
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23

TPK will learn new things with every teaching game and review
DDK is enthusiast for learning more and getting stronger
SDK can see how much more room there is to develop
Dan has wasted way too much time on old games

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24

The lowest rated players on OGS (3-5 out of 160’000 accounts?) are 42k, out of a possible ~240k (1 rating point).

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25

Well, that’s a relief I guess. Glad that the ranking system prevents us from having to deal with QDK (quadruple digit kyu).

Some skill differences for TDK (triple digit kyu) vs QDK:

  • Aware that the game of go exists.
  • Understands when they are playing the game and attempts to make plays.
  • Able to recognize obvious sarcasm.
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26

If rating is below 0 we get CNKs (complex numbered kyus) through :wink:

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27

Of course, what I listed in the bullet points of each category isn’t a definitive boundary. A weaker player might do something in the stronger player categories from time to time. But the key difference is consistency. Heck, I can sometimes see AlphaGo’s next move in its games too, but can I do that reliably? Heck, not by the hair of my chinny chin chin! :slight_smile:

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28

What do you mean here? Naturally ranks of EGF, for example, are stronger than OGS’ (after Glicko), because it’s completely different systems, like Fahrenheit and Celsius. And naturally people who are used to playing online going to play a bit worse with a real board. So I don’t see how real life has anything to do with OGS.

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29

If I try to keep with the idea of the first post here I would rather say that a ddk discover the game (being in the cloud), a sdk learn to build a game(under the cloud) and a Dan play the game(in the blue sky).

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30

Noah Fencebutt, you’d have to be pretty weak to be described as a TPK. :slight_smile:

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31

My guess is, you go from rookie mistakes to advanced ones.

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32

Yeah, what I always say: “We don’t stop making mistakes. We (hopefully) just make better ones.”

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33

Based on the simple math I was taught, where we compared numbers to zero:

  • TPK to TPK: I have no idea how this works, but I’ll massacre you.
  • Weak DDK to TPK: I will kill you.
  • Strong DDK to TPK: I will gently beat you and teach you.
  • Weak SDK to TPK: I will beat you to teach you.
  • Strong SDK to TPK: I will massacre you.
  • Dan to TPK: You’re dead.
  • Pro to TPK:
    url=https://imgflip.com/i/3omrpz][/url][url=https://imgflip.com/memegenerator]via
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34

I don’t have experience against human dans, but I played bots a lot.

When SDK humans place stone in my territory, stone will most probably die.
When 10d BOT places stone in my territory, my territory will most probably die.
That is the main difference between SDK and 10 dan

When playing against human SDK you need balance between defense and attack, or you will have not enough territory in the end.
But when you have 9 handicap stones and opponent is kata-bot, protection is the only thing you have to think about. 1 little attempt to attack and you definitely will lose.

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35

Dans use long jumps a lot. SDK afraid to do so.
Dans able to predict which long jump will survive and which wouldn’t. SDK only able to long jump blindly.
In game between kyu, you can always cut long jump of opponent. Chaos will begin. Both players will have chance to win in that chaos.
But if you are sdk and opponent is dan, you definitely will lose chaos battle. So dan can exploit it and do very very many long jumps against sdk. So if you(sdk) have handicap stones, its really bad idea to cut long jumps of dan and its bad idea to do long jumps yourself. Because in chaos dan will have upper hand.

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36

Able to recognize and avoid illegal moves, like ko and suicide.

Hmm, is an understanding of ko and the illegality of suicide in dominant rulesets really necessary to move out of the “triple digit kyu” ranks?

One can play a pretty good game at even SDK level without ko having to be considered.

Also, I’d add that the TDK (triple digit kyu) knows that no liberties are provided by the edge of the board.

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37

The main difference between K and D is k spends lots of time on this forum while D playing on the real OGS. :stuck_out_tongue:

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38

Probably worth noting that ranks have collectively shifted since this thread started. See: 2021 Rating and rank adjustments

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39

Perhaps you are right. I also made a list considering QDK.

I like to think of myself as an OGS (Forums) Shodan

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40

Perhaps part of the graduation from TDK to TPK, in an online context, is the understanding of overtime systems like byo-yomi and Fischer. And of the basic idea of Elo-style rank that (infamously loosely) rises and falls in response to one’s performance against higher- and lower-rated players.