I think I’m winning at move 100, since I managed to kill a large group. However, I lost. What went wrong?
@theemathas
You are too focused on the black group while black takes over the bigger places on the board,
like the lower part of the board is black, many corners are black’s. You better pay attention on the bigger places even though the group is fighting with each other. This is a good sacrifice to make.
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Was the choise to try to kill that black group wrong? When shoud I have stopped?
Urm… I am not really sure, I bet I play go worse than you. In the start, black is already like mad. I think you have tried to invade the left side of the board. I would do that, but I am not sure. I know that sacrifice move, since I have watched the Alpha Go series, and there’s a moment similar to that and he won after sacrificing those stones. (Well, Alpha Go gave up 4 stones, but he got the centre and upper side.
Sth like this?
First, I’ve never seen a single case where sacrificing 18 stones was beneficial. 4 stones is already quite a lot.
Second, the purpose of the moves 92-96 were to prevent the F10 group from dying while kill the G14 stone black group.
This reminds me of one of my recent games, 18 dead white stones on the right hand side:
Sensei’s library also has this example where black sacrifices stones (guess how many) for thickness:
That said I was also surprised by black’s large victory. Here are a couple reasons to explain it.
First, black gained a large corner on the top left. Even larger was E8. I believe H14 was the losing move, it should have been played at E7. White was forced to take all the liberties of the black group while black was locking in 60 points on the left hand side.
Then black played very well, while white played some slow moves like M8 and H6. Finally black got a large yose in the top left.
An interesting game and learning experience!
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I read somewhere someone saying their fave tactic used to be to throw down 10-15 stones somewhere as bait, then take over the rest of the board gradually while their opponent tries to kill the sacrifice group…
Thank you. I’ve always thought that losing this many stones guarantees a win provided reasonable follow-up. I guess I’m wrong.
The reason I played H14 in move 100 was because I believed that my F10 group might end up dying if black tried to kill it, possibly fighting the J12 ko at some point. The number of liberties of my group seems to keep going down in the variations I read after E7. I also greatly underestimated how much I could invade in the bottom part of the board. (and I thought I invaded the wrong way when I knew I was losing) Also, the reason I decided to let go of the upper right hand corner was because I couldn’t find a better alternative, and I thought that the influence outside and the chances of attacking black’s group might give me reasonable fighting chances.
Certainly an interesting choice. You just have to acknowledge that the capture came at a price, and getting a 4-4 stone captured is highly unusual. Again, I think your main issue was the left side.
The H14 group looks very safe to me. Even if black connected the ko - that would be two moves - the black group would only have 5 liberties.
I spent moves 46-64 trying to keep the K16 group alive. I didn’t see move 37 at O16 coming, and I couldn’t find a better way to get out of the trouble.
I’m more afraid of black taking the ko but not connecting it. I would then have to win the ko before capturing the group. Also, can you give me an example variation of how the H14 group is safe?
Again, I think you did well, and the result up to move 99 is favorable to white. Just be aware that the capture came at a price.
How would black attack that group? A 3-3 invasion won’t go very far. See the review I posted:
I understand. Try some variations after a white move at E7, and you’ll see that there is no emergency.
Sorry. I meant the F10 group, not the H14 group. I couldn’t read if the F10 group is safe after the E7 move.
Probably the F10 group cannot make two eyes, and you’ll still have to capture the black stones eventually. But still in the meantime you’ll have reduced black’s territory by 10-15 points and created some weaknesses in black’s shape. I don’t see any way for black to block white after E7.
I updated my review with two variations. The short story is that white should answer black E5 at D6, and black cannot stop that invasion.
Turns out I miscalculated something stupid in that variation. Thank you.
alphago vs alphago, game 2, move 287 results in the capture of 29 white stones. Black captured in total 51 white stones (vs 29 black stones) and white wins the game by resignation.
Also viewable here: deepmind, alphago-alphago.
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My reaction to that Alphago game: wtf is going on there.
Anyway, thanks.