I'm "all in" move choice for conditional moves

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21

I get the impression the most people read this as “I do not remember the ko” but I interpreted as “I don’t want to fight the ko”

So…

No, I do not! :wink: If you had said “sometimes there are lots of ko threats but they’re all smaller than the ko itself so I am ready to win the ko no matter which threat the opponent plays”, then fair enough. But if you really do mean “I don’t have the guts to fight the ko so I’m going to wimp out and win the ko even if my opponent plays a bigger threat” :yum: then… No, no! Naughty, naughty! You cannot run away from a ko fight like a coward! You must be brave and stand your ground until it’s just not worth it anymore! :rofl:

22

Firstly, your tone is FAR too aggressive. People can play however they want. You cannot dictate their play or make negative accusations against their character!

Secondly, in corr if you have several turns ongoing it can be easy to forget that you’re fighting a ko and accidentally play away from it naturally rather than taking back the ko, winning the ko, or making a sizable threat elsewhere.

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23

It was a joke :roll_eyes:

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24

You gave absolutely NO distinguishing textuel features to indicate that in any way.
no funny emotes…
no /s (sarcasm) or /j (joke) to indicate intent…

There is no tone on the internet so you need to be much more careful with your words, as there are people who would seriously make these claims.

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25

Seriously? Who says “Naughty, naughty!” for real? :roll_eyes:

But no offense was meant so post edited to include smileys :innocent:

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26

I totally don’t get this thread.

I can’t understand how it can be that if I’m looking at a ko and thinking “no matter what my opponent does, I am going to play into that next” why could you object that I tell OGS this before my opponent plays? What earthly difference can it make, other than speeding up the next tur?

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27

They seem to be concerned that people will use it so often, that their opponents will start randomly playing game ending “ko threats” at random points throughout the game, hoping to catch them in an unconditional reply that would then become a game ending blunder…

But, surely this could never be so prevalent as to outweigh the inherent benefits of the feature being used as intended.

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28

It seems if one forgets they are in a ko battle one is just not playing attention to their play. They deserve to lose ko battle. How is that any less careless than self-atari which I have stopped doing in corr games?

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29

OT, but I just realized it is not possible to react to forum posts with emojis, there is only the like/heart button :frowning:

30

that’s a good suggestion to put in the appropriate thread…
https://forums.online-go.com/t/features-everyone-secretly-want-on-ogs-but-will-never-be-implemented/32125/142

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31

I have come to appreciate the argument about “this will cause crazy ataris”.

I can now see the case where the players have established that each are users of conditional moves, and a moment arrives where it is “obvious” what one of them should do next.

When that’s bad for the opponent (IE the known end of a capturing race) the losing player can bet that the opponent will say “no matter what he does I’m going to finish this off”, and so at that time do something else that will be very profitable if the opponent doesn’t respond.

I tend to agree that this situation is likely enough to make the feature questionable.

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32

I want this! ! !

I understand a lot of people will object because this could easily be exploited.
However, if someone uses this in the wrong situation, it’s his fault, there’s nothing wrong with the functionality itself!

There will definitely be situations where this is needed.
For example, I’ve won 100 points and my opponent is still playing…
I have many, many, many, countless games like this.
It’s annoying, annoying, annoying, really annoying.

When I want to get to 180 moves and pass three times, it has to take me days, weeks, or even months, and it’s really, really painful…

If I have this, I can quickly eliminate the KO threat, close the territory, ensure two-eye survival, etc., and then it will be 2 passes.
I don’t need to worry about this game anymore.
The next time I come here, it will be time to confirm the score or let the server decide.
It can speed up your game by days, weeks or even months, so don’t underestimate it! !

Sure, it’s possible for an opponent to take advantage of this, but how much can he take advantage of?
When I was 100 points ahead, nothing he could do would help.
I believe it’s the user’s fault for being taken advantage of in situations like this!

Please, add this, it’s useful!

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34

Not at all. If you both know what’s going to happen next (I’ve just put 15 stones into atari and you only have one reasonable move, or we’ve just started on a long joseki that’s a one-way street, or …) it’s reasonable to skip over that bit in a flurry of conditionals and save more time for the interesting part. The correspondence chess people have been operating that way for some decades, and they’re playing a shorter game!

When I was playing a lot of correspondence, if I thought I was ahead and just needed to finish off a routine late endgame, I would put a message in the chat saying “by the way, I’ve entered my conditionals in this order…” (Not when behind. I wouldn’t say “I’ve lost and I’m telling you how to beat me.” If it’s that clear-cut, just resign.) Some people would take me up on the offer (and one person thanked me for doing it this way), some wouldn’t, but no harm done either way (unless I’ve made a mistake, in which case I deserve what I get).

Likewise, if you’re that sure of your response, why not just say so in the chat? Then the other person can enter a conditional for your inevitable reply, if they want to.

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35

I don’t like talking to people in games.
Anyway, I don’t think chat is part of the game.
I actually get a little anxious when I see my opponent saying anything other than saying hello or thanking me.
No matter what, I just want to play mine.

Of course, maybe it’s a good idea to send move sequences to your opponent via analysis mode.
But the premise is that I currently use the function of copying the analysis results to conditional movement.
If I use conditional movement directly without going through analysis mode, I can’t do it.
And I’m sure that in order to avoid additional risks, I will almost never use this function (copy analysis results to conditional moves).
So, how do I send a sequence of conditional moves to my opponent?
Therefore, I have no way of sending conditional move sequences to my opponent without communicating with them.

36

There is another potential variant. Instead of having completely persistent or completely all-in moves, we could have a “restore” button that would restore the last set of conditional moves you set up for the game. It wouldn’t 100% solve any of the scenarios, but it would save a lot of time spent repeatedly setting up a large set of conditional moves.

And it would be mostly a UI change (still need an API call for loading the “last set of conditional moves”), it wouldn’t need to change the way conditional moves work under the hood.

4 Likes
37

I very often do moves where I don’t care where exactly opponent did their last move.
I just may wish to add 5-5 point to top-right corner for example. If opponent would play in other corner, I would place that stone anyway. Except if there is the weakness in other corner which they attack.
So “do P15 if opponent DON’T place stone in R17, R16, R15, …” tool may be useful
instead of selecting moves that opponent would do, select moves that opponent would not do

38

I think this proposal

and this proposal are repeated.

If you’ve already chosen which of your opponent’s moves you won’t respond to, why not just set what you want to respond to?

For example,
do R18 if opponent place stone in R17,
do R14 if opponent place stone in R16,
do Q17 if opponent place stone in R15,
…
OTHERWISE do P15.

I believe this is the same, or better, than “do P15 if opponent DON’T place stone in R17, R16, R15, …”.

39

I may wish to not think what to do if opponent do dangerous move.
So it should be possible to select dangerous opponent moves without selecting how I would respond. Just do P15 if situation is safe. if its not safe, I would think later what to do.

40

This seems trickier than some of the other proposals :thinking: