It reminds me about the discussion on whether not accepting intolerance is being intolerant.
Telling people not to be judgemental is not the same as being judgemental, it’s one level above, sort of meta-judgemental.
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Then I’ll be meta-meta-judgmental by telling people not to be judgmental about people being judgmental.
I’m also talking about the part where he assumes what the person saying is not correct, because that’s also a judgment on its own.
Depending on that example, there are many ways to reach that. The most common ones are:
a) The food is objectively not enough (e.g. you invited ten people over and you bought enough food for 5 people)
b) You might know the people that are coming over and you know that the current amount of food is not going to cut it.
c) You know the person that bought the food is tight with money, so they did their usual “magic”
a and b are more an assessment based on known/obvious facts/data.
c is what I’d call a judgement.
Sure. Here it is:
I could have left it at that and made that point “by demonstration”. 
If you want easier examples, there are questions that have been predetermined by experience or your character, for example:
– Do you like spiders? No. (Almost all of them are harmless here, but you can have a phobia. You do not need to assess, or judge the “next spider” in line. You already know what’s up)
– Do you enjoy watching football? Yes or no, you already know the answer. You’ve tried the activity and you either like it or not. After that, it is now just a statement of fact and no longer a matter of judgement. If you watch a particular game and it is boring you can judge that “damn this game was a bland soup”, but that probably wouldn’t change your general disposition towards the activity overall.
– Is it hot? Yes or no, there are objective indicators for that kind of thing (thermometers)
and so forth…
This post might interest you, then, since it seems to answer - or at least adress - that issue:
What non-Go book are you reading right now? - #133 by JethOrensin
He doesn’t assume what the person said is not correct, he says the person may or may not be correct, we need more data to be sure, so let’s refrain from making negative judgements on someone’s actions unless we have weighed carefully all pros and cons.
I would say a and b included your judgment of how much each person eat, which is the argument that I’m making. Without an assumption of how much each person eat, how do you know it’s not enough? Maybe some of them are on diet and not eating?
These are yes or no questions which are like facts, not opinions.
Sorry it’s a bit too long. I’ll read when I get time 
Saying what the person said may or may not be correct isn’t a kind of judgment?
Is it only considered a judgment when it is negative?
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No, it’s abstaining from making a judgement. It’s saying “I don’t know” instead of “I know something”.
No but negative judgements can be harmful so should be made with extra caution. Like you don’t consider someone guilty until a hard proof is provided.
I would say saying “Maybe…” is the same as saying “I think…” so if the latter is a judgment, then the former is a judgment, too. And you agree that judgments are not just negative ones.
Also, when you say “Don’t be judgmental”, aren’t you assuming that the person has no other information? If yes, isn’t that a kind of judgment? Maybe that person has more information than you think!
No, the “maybe” part means “I don’t know if what follows is correct or not, I’m just giving circumstances in which your judgment would be wrong, but I’m not saying that these circumstances are necessarily true”.
Yes, I assume that if the person doesn’t know Alice and Bob better than me. But if he is a close friend of Alice and Bob and I am not, then I would assume that the person’s judgement is quite reliable.
In case where people face the totally foreseeable consequences of their actions do you think that it is ok to point it out and not feel sorry about those people’s plight? 
I mean for cases like:
– I voted for candidate/politician X and policy Y, but it backfired and my business got ruined (e.g. Brexit)
– I bought a nice steak-house and turned it into a “vegan only restaurant” and all the clients left and the banks foreclosed my loans
– We tried to push for a price hike and told our customers that this is how we want to run business and they stopped buying our product or switched to a competitor. Now, my business is going under.
– I just finished my degree, I have no stable job, but I like expensive cars, so I took a big car loan and bought a Mustang with 1200 dollars monthly payments and six months later it was reposessed by the bank.
… and so forth.
For stuff like that, we hear a lot of times people saying that you are a 'bad person" to point out that it was a predictable result and, mostly, their fault and that you are a horrible human being if you do not feel sorry for them and have no contrition at pointing out that these bad results are the direct consequences of their choices/actions.
So, in such cases and if asked (or if those mistakes somehow affect you or your country/business/family/hobby/whatever), can you point out those mistakes and not feel sorry about the plight of those people:
- Yes, it is fair to think of it and say so. That’s how people learn, through their mistakes.
- Yes, it is fair to think that, but you shouldn’t say it. (Good manners/discretion)
- Fair or not, you should always be compassionate about any misfortune, even if it is self-inflicted.
- No, you shouldn’t make negative comments about other people’s mistakes, even if asked about it.
- Other choice - please specify.
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I voted other. I’ll probably say nothing, but not out of politeness or compassion.
I think many people don’t learn from their mistakes, no matter if you say “I told you so” or “I feel so sorry for your misfortune” or you say nothing at all. They’ll probably just put the blame elsewhere and touch the stove again.
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John Hammond: I don’t blame people for their mistakes. But I do ask that they pay for them. Jurassic Park movie.
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How do people that can’t cook, go through life?
I know a couple of people here that can’t even boil an egg, but I know how they get to eat because they live close to their parents. Others are just married, ok, the other person probably knows how to cook, but I see or hear sometimes about people going to big cities alone and living there but “can’t cook”. What do these people eat all year?
And how can you “not know how to cook”? It is not a mystical process or even a difficult one for most recipes. It might have been harder once, but the internet is everywhere. Open a YT video, follow the recipe and cook some food. Why not?
I saw one of those local people today and I was reminded of this question of mine. I had actually asked him before “what are you going to eat when your parents eventually die and why not learn how to cook now that they are alive?” and I got no answer other than “I’ll see when that happens” and “I am too bored to learn how to”.
Baffling…
Do they just buy food every day for every meal? Is that even affordable??
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Why not?
Cooking is not just about the cost of the food, but also the time spent. If your manhour rate is very high, you might as well spend that time to earn more money rather than use it to cook food. The quality would be much better, too.
I don’t think “it’s so easy, why don’t you do it?” is a good argument. If it is, there wouldn’t be so many stupid people around
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Some people eat at the canteen of their company/administration at lunch, and instant noodles or something equivalent in the evening.
They will probably learn when they need to. I guess their parents cook more elaborate food than a boiled egg, so as long as their parents are alive and able to cook, they prefer to eat with them rather than eat badly cooked food.
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also, does “I can’t cook” mean “I end up burning orange juice”, or “My cooking isn’t anything to write home about”?
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Yes, but isn’t the cost exorbitant, compared to cooking on your own, at least some days in the week?
Obviously you will buy some take out or go to a restaurant sometimes or get a pizza or whatever, but that should be the exception, not the rule, in terms of affordability.
I have no knowledge about the food costs elsewhere, but here the ratio is quite something. It is usually a 3 to 1 ratio between making food and buying food. I do not think that this is financially sustainable for 365 days and many decades of life.
For example...
…this is a dish called “gemista” here (stuffed tomatoes and/or bell peppers with rice, along with potatoes, baked in the oven - pretty simple ingredients and doesn’t cost much to make):
This tray is six portions on what you’d buy on a restaurant, for at least 6,5 euros per portion. So, that means 6*6.5 = 39 euros to buy this made with “restaurant quality ingredients”.
But it would barely cost you 13 euros to make with some of the best ingredients in the grocery store.
In some cases if you shop the ingredients when there are discounts or, even worse, if you shop from the “inferior ingredients” like most restaurants do, you could even lower that ratio to 4 to 1 in a lot of dishes.
I highly doubt that, somehow. Restaurant food might be better quality in some establishments, but generally it is sub-par compared to what you can cook at home. Just the difference in the ingredience quality alone can elevate your own cooking way above a restaurant’s.
I am not sure we have quite a lot of these (especially not for free, provided by the company), and even in those cases they still offer the same quality/price like the normal restaurants.
I do certainly hope so!
Yes, but in those cases, why not learn from them?
That dude I found on the street today. It is not as if he has anything better to do. He is unemployed. Last time we had that conversation he had spent 6 months at his house till he moved out again to go work in Athens and he was like “damn, what will I eat now?” and I was like “how on earth did you manage to be so lazy? Your mother was in the next room cooking. You had nothing to do anyway. Why not go there, help her and learn? What is wrong with you??” … well a lot of things are wrong with that particular fellow, but I know other people like that, as well. They are not exactly rare in our society. (predictably when he went to Athens he didn’t manage to break even financially with his salary and expenses and his mother had to “send him food packages” so that he could even survive… good God.)
I honestly do not get that part. I kind of blame the parents a bit too, in such cases.
That, or being totally unwilling to do it or learn how to.
I remember someone when I was in college that failed to boil pasta… somehow they didn’t realise you’d need water in the pot for that to work … they did try it though, so in my books those people are in a better state than those that won’t try it at all.
In France, canteens don’t exist in every company, only in big ones, and they are not free but may be subsidized, so more affordable than a regular restaurant.
Companies which don’t have a canteen can provide (subsidized) “tickets restaurants” to their employees, which can be spent in normal restaurants. So for instance if they get 10€ of “tickets-restaurants” each day that costs them 5€ thanks to the company’s subsidy, and they eat a 15€ meal at a restaurant, then the meal really costs them 10€.
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In China and SW Asia, eating outside is not so expensive, I mean not like in Greece
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On some more news on that a lot of people seem to be financing, fast food…
This is a “canary in the coal mine” sort of issue, I’d say…
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