Interesting tricky rules position from OGS posted on reddit

This popped up on reddit just recently: https://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/1wnyccn/9x9_triple_ko/

What is the status here under Japanese rules?

It’s tempting to say that this is a triple ko and the game should be a no-result (as some commenters have answered in the reddit thread), or that it should be some kind of multi-ko seki, but under Japanese rules, I think white is simply dead, even though black has no way to forcibly capture white during the normal play of the game, due to how the hypothetical post-game play and pass-for-ko rule works.

Making this thread here for the rules people that might be interested.

2 Likes

Isocaplex (isn’t that you?) gives the correct answer on Reddit (one eye wins against no eye): https://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/1wnyccn/comment/pbkp1ii/

He’s referring to this example in the official Japanese Rules:

Life-and-Death Example 8: triple ko with an eye on one side

|105,x185
Black’s nine stones are dead and White’s ten are alive. {I would not call this a “real” triple ko, because the three kos are not all between the same two groups. --wjh}
In the confirmation phase, the black stones can be captured as follows.

|90,x185
White 1 takes the “outside” ko. Black 2 takes an inside ko. White 3 takes the other inside ko. Black 4 passes (for either the ko at 1 or 3). White 5 captures nine black stones.

5 Likes

Article 10. Determining the result

1. After agreement that the game has ended, each player removes any opposing dead stones from his territory as is, and adds them to his prisoners.
2. Prisoners are then filled into the opponent’s territory, and the points of territory are counted and compared. The player with more territory wins. If both players have the same amount the game is a draw, which is called a “jigo.”
3. If one player lodges an objection to the result, both players must reconfirm the result by, for example, replaying the game.
4. After both players have confirmed the result, the result cannot be changed under any circumstances.

Apparently OGS has a strong adherence to this Article 10 - Rule 4 :sweat_smile:

1 Like

I guess the idea is if the game ends with two passes like

then in hypothetical play

black can show white is dead, because white has to pass to retake a ko (though specifics are unclear if it’s per ko or to lift restriction once etc).

While there’s no similar sequence to capture the black stones. It’s not like a seki or anti seki, white can be captured so white is dead.

That would be my understanding in some of the cases of a triple ko where one side has an eye, and the repetition isn’t forced (black can pass, white can’t fill any ko, and will run out of legal moves other than passing.

2 Likes

Sensei’s Library has this exact situation: ​ https://senseis.xmp.net/?MoonshineLife#toc4
(eye vs no-eye, 3 shared kos, no other liberties)