Is it always within the rules to resume play after both players pass?

AGA rules is an exception. Play just resumes from whoever’s turn it is.

In Tromp-Taylor rules (John's Go Page), using the dead stone agreement procedure, it seems to be implied that play also just resumes from whoever’s turn it is.

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That seems like a polite way to play, but some rule sets have it that if a disagreement occurs over what is dead and alive and seki then play continues with who-ever passed last letting their opponent have the first move in the continuation of the game, which makes sense in one way: we disagree, so let us continue as if we had not passed (assuming two passes has been made, one by each player).

To be more precise, AGA condense rules (see above web-link) states:
9. Ending the Game: Two consecutive passes normally signal the end of the game. After two passes, the players must attempt to agree on the status of all groups of stones remaining on the board. Any stones which the players agree could not escape capture if the game continued, but which have not yet been captured and removed, are termed dead stones. If the players agree on the status of all such groups, they are removed from the board as prisoners of the player who could capture, and the game is scored as in Rule 12. If there is a disagreement over the status of some group or groups, play is resumed as specified in Rule 10.

  1. Disputes: If the players disagree about the status of a group of stones left on the board after both have passed, play is resumed, with the opponent of the last player to pass having the move. The game is over when the players agree on the status of all groups on the board, or, failing such agreement, if both players pass twice in succession. In this case any stones remaining on the board are deemed alive.

BTW, the AGA rules are an attempt to honor both the Chinese, Korean, and Japanese rule systems. I’m not sure that is possible for seki, but give them credit for trying. :slight_smile:

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This thread has grown a little too much. Come on, if one player wants to resume the game after checking the score in scoring, let them. It’s what children do, eventually they’ll grow out of it. It’s not like they can change the score in their favor by silly invasions (and if they do, that’s a lesson for you to learn). And after these scummy tactics it’s twice as pleasant to crush them.

Going back to playing is useful if you’re both drunk (for example) and forgot to play out some border.

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I’m not sure I understand what you mean by the above. Can you explain the exception? (please see my above AGA / US Go web-link for concise AGA rules)

Also, thanks for sharing the Tromp/Taylor / New Zealand (in Haskell) rules… I like them!
In particular, I like keeping the rules as simple as possible, allowing suicide, allowing ties (by no or whole number komi)… and it seems to me this rule set makes seki… um… more… um… IDK, natural?

@Sighris and @trohde The AGA rules are clear, just read them carefully without skipping a step.

I don’t think I’m contradicting you.

trodhe asked if every ruleset mandates that the player asking for resumption must give his opponent the first move.

AGA rules are a counterexample. Hence, I called it an exception, since it does not follow what trodhe had expected.

“Play resumes from whoever’s turn it is” is just a short way to say that play resumes with the opponent of the last player to pass. Since white has to pass last, it is typically black that resumes play, if they have followed that rule.

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@yebellz so same comment for you :wink: read the rules carefully without skipping a step.

For clarity let me spell out the AGA rules:

  • both players pass
  • they try to come to an agreement on the groups’ status
  • if no agreement the first player to pass can resume the game (then loop back to first step)
  • if agreement and white passed first, white passes again
  • then scoring can happen

To put it another way: the third pass, if any, is part of the scoring phase and happens after the game ends.

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Oh interesting, I guess I always misunderstood AGA’s white passes last rule.

Oh darn … good that the chances are low that I’d ever have to play under AGA rules :smiley:

Just reading this thread, I think I’m gonna stay away from this game. Seems nobody can agree on the rules :stuck_out_tongue: What I read when this site gave me the official tutorial was that when both players pass, the game is over.

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@Hiyek once it’s spelled out everybody agrees. People were just misreading. Just like you assumed the tutorial you followed was official while this is not mentioned anywhere :wink:

The fun part is that we can still play the same game even if we disagree on the rules.

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I hope I get this correct —> It is not an AGA rule that “white passes last”, only that 3 passes are needed to end the game (with a stone surrendered to the opponent on each pass). My understanding is that the results of the AGA rules are that the score at the end of an AGA rules game will almost always be the same as almost all other counting systems; with the exception that there are two different ways to count seki (the Japanese system and the Chinese system) and they sometimes give different results and thus there is no way the AGA counting could agree fully with all other rule-sets.

If you use area counting, then “White passes last” and “pass stones” are unnecessary.

The AGA rules are fundamentally area scoring, but using pass stones and White passes last causes the territory counting to equal area counting.

Since the game might be resumed to settle life and death disputes, the “White passes last” provision should not be applied until after all of those resumptions have been dealt with. It is purely an accounting trick to help with counting, if one is using territory counting.