Is that the same as
I wonder?
It actually looks like ogs tournament system is able to to handle draws to some degree, for swiss/mcmahon tourneys players receive .5 point each, and for elimation tourneys players will have another game. I havent yet tested how it will affect elimination tourneys with lots of participiants, but appears that the tournament system can deal with ties without too much trouble ^^
This only happens if game ends as draw by moderator decicion, for natural jigos which happen via scoring it all breaks down ;____;
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For the EGF.rating system I think it is.
For games with a wide draw margin, it might not be quite good enough to count a draw simply as half a win and half a loss, but go has quite a narrow draw margin, so I expect that this simple approach is good enough for go, at least for human levels of play.
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To have to share the reward between both sometimes makes me wondering.
Anyway that’s what most will ask.
Alternative rulesets are not allowed for ladders, right?
For tournaments, I would prefer a slightly broken implementation like what we have now to completely banning NZ rules. Are you worried that improving the jigo implementation is going to cause the tournament code to fail badly? And what would you do anyway, with existing NZ-rules tournaments that might take years to finish?
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Just call them “a variant of NZ rules” by honesty because jigo is a crucial feature of these rules . I mean people look more interested in the jigo as in the bonus of a ko threat by the authorized suicide.
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What I had in mind when I typed that is that it seems like there’s nothing stopping games with NZ rules being scored with a draw - we could conceivably do that in the foreseeable future IF we take NZ rules out of tournaments (maybe they already aren’t in ladders, you’re right).
Anything to do with tournament implementation changing (such as understanding what to do when there’s a draw): it’s gonna be a while.
Earlier last year “fix up tournaments” did get onto the “we’re actually working on it” list briefly, but then was bumped by a series of higher priority and/or easier to accomplish improvements.
It’s not clear when we’ll be able to get back to tournaments, though it definitely is “important, on the list”.
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May I remind people that draws pose absolutely no difficulty for Swiss, McMahon, and round-robin tournaments. That covers most tournaments on OGS. It’s only a problem for the minority of tournaments that are knock-out.
May I further remind people that draws are possible in most rulesets, including Japanese rules with 6.5 or 7.5 komi, for example in triple-ko situations.
Any server that can’t handle draws properly is therefore broken. That includes OGS. The bug doesn’t surface often, so people can play for years without seeing it, but it’s still a bug.
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The question isn’t whether it poses any particular difficulty.
The question is who is going to write the code that handles the straightforwards or not straightforwards cases of an outcome not being a win/loss, and even more importantly: at what priority.
For you, the lack of a feature you want is a bug.
Personally, from my point of view, it’s just a missing feature on the long list of features that we all want.
I can think of many many things that need to be improved with tournaments ahead of “draw support”. I’m expecting “draw support” to be easy enough to add when someone is in there. I’m just being transparent that as far as I can see, that won’t be any time soon.
Maybe I’m wrong again! Koba just tried out draws in tournaments using moderator decision, and it seems to handle them. I had previously heard this was not the case. It also may depend on the tournament type.
However, if it boils down to “we just need the scoring system to let players agree on a draw” who knows… that might be tractable 
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Sorry It’s not this at all. NZ rules already exists on OGS but they are bugged by the result they give.
When I chose to play a game under NZ rules on OGS, shouldn’t I expect that in case of jigo the result will be handled correctly?
We are not experimenting a new feature but correcting a old one (=bug)
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That’s a naive point of view.
We have a ruleset called NZ, just like we have a ruleset called Japanese. It works within the features that we support, just like Japanese. There are plenty of aspects of Japanese rules that aren’t implemented by OGS. This is not considered a “bug”, it’s just we don’t have a feature like “resume play hypothetically to determine life and death status”, which you need to be fully compliant with Japanese rules. Similarly, we don’t have a feature where players can agree that the result is a draw, which you need to be fully compliant with NZ rules.
Of course, this is just semantics, you say bug, I say feature, you say tomato, I say tomato…
–
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There is still a big difference. Jigo is what is attracting mostly players to this rule. It’s like selling just the leave of the tomato, not the fruit
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While I’m sitting thinking about this eating lunch I realised there’s another aspect to it.
“You” (some person calling it a “bug”) want to call it a “bug” because you think that will motivate it to get fixed more quickly. Along the lines of “hey there’s this longstanding bug, you need to fix it!!”
Personally, I’m motivated the opposite way. We’ve managed without this so-called bug for so long, what is the motivation to fix it now? What has changed?
A more motivating thing is a feature that someone will use. Here’s a great example:
This person popped in and said “if only we had this feature, we could use the server more in this concrete way…”.
That’s motivating. That feature will be released in a day or two…
I can’t argue with that 
Is there a “NZ rules players club” who all will play more if we get this in?
Bon appetit!
Since long ago i know the limited capacity of OGS to change and the optimization of the programation resources. It’s ok.
I am not a NZ rules user anyway but i like that users aren’t disapointed when they get something quite different as what was expected. Black wins this jigo? Well ok, just the charm of OGS.
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From one OGF-er having lunch to another 
When I first bumped this thread (with 119 posts at the time IIRC), the title still included the line “bug not even assigned yet”, so it seems other users have also seen this lack of a feature that way.
It does feel a bit silly to me to insist this issue should not be called a bug, considering that ranked draws by moderator decision are already possible. Why would this feature exist, if not to score games having ended in jigo?
Now one might argue that users should have to alert a moderator during the scoring phase, and that automatic jigo scoring as a draw by player agreement would be a bonus feature. However, nowhere in the documentation is it stated that mods need to be alerted during the scoring phase if the game outcome is jigo. B+0, then, is an unexpected outcome - would you disagree?
As far as motivation for what would change if this new feature were implemented: I wouldnt have to bother a mod every time a game of mine ended in jigo. In the past, mods have actually responded within minutes (certainly within 24 hours) when this has happened; but this time the scoring phase timed out first, motivating me to revive this thread. (My two mod calls still havent been handled, days later. I filed one as “other” and one as “score cheating”, making sure to specify that it was not my opponent who did the cheating but the system.)
So pretty, pretty please: could you make jigo draws by player agreement automatic as a new feature? <33
(Oh, and while I have you here… custom komi for demo boards would be a sick new feature, too ;3)
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OGF? Something i missed, a federation maybe?
Online Go Forum
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Ah yes sorry 
I strongly agree with this. There’s no difference between a “bug” and a missing feature. What matters is how obvious/desirable the solution is and how difficult (or in this case, fun/satisfying) it is to achieve.
New Zealand Tournaments was once actively churning out lots of tournaments of different sizes (looks like ~600 finished tournaments in about 3 years of activity?) But it was kind of silly with only a partial implementation of the rules. If jigo worked, maybe that would justify getting it going again somehow.
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I would say that a bug is something that works differently than intended, and that the possibility of draws by mod decision strongly suggests that draws are the intended outcome of jigo. 
The fact that default komi for NZ rules is 7.0 also seems to suggest to me that B+0 is an erroneous rather than intended possible outcome…
If 30-second byo-yomi periods on OGS ended after 25 seconds, would you call it a missing feature?
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