Josekle šŸŸ¢āšŖšŸŸ£šŸŸ¢šŸŸ£

Basically this, but I think thereā€™s also a length cap for hard mode, because michiakig extracted only a certain number of moves from OJE.

2 Likes

Maybe it makes sense to make the hard mode solutions (going forward) disjoint from the normal mode solutions?

I wonder if there was some issue with a lack of full randomization in the puzzles. I could always reshuffle the ordering of future puzzles.

1 Like

I think I imagined people would either play hard or normal not both, but it seems like people are playing both. Personally I am not sure there is that big a difference, there are enough uncommon joseki labeled ā€œbasicā€ that normal is challenging for me, and hard would not be that different?

I looked at this briefly yesterday, and although there were a few in a row that start off the same, I didnā€™t actually see evidence the solutions are ordered somehow. The script did shuffle before producing the list, so although there is of course a possibility of a bug, I attribute it to the typical bias about ā€œrandomā€ sequences not being ā€œrandom enoughā€ (of course for the game, perhaps a non-random sequence is desirable, for instance alternating first moves, etc. but this would be more work)

1 Like

I guess hard mode should just be viewed as ā€œallā€ mode with hard and easy puzzles, where as normal cuts out any too hard puzzles.

The ā€œhardā€ puzzle had only 4 moves today, but it was still a bit tricky to work out

Josekle #22 (4 moves, hard)
:white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::white_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::white_circle::green_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

Fusekle #4 (5 moves)
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

Josekle #22 (9 moves)
:white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

1 Like

Josekle #23 (6 moves)
:green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

Fusekle #5 (7 moves)
:green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

Josekle #23 (9 moves, hard)
:green_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

Josekle #23 (6 moves)
:white_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

Josekle #23 (9 moves, hard)
:green_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

1 Like

Josekle #25 (8 moves)
:purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::green_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

Josekle #25 (14 moves, hard)
:green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

Fusekle #7 (8 moves)
:purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

I havenā€™t been sharing my scores here since Iā€™ve mainly been posting them in Discord, but I had to share today because the hard one looks like pixel art and fusekle has a hilarious dearth of green

3 Likes

Josekle #25 (8 moves)
:purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::green_circle::white_circle::green_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

I finally used OJE to help find the last move, then I still misplaced it once more.

2 Likes

I had never seen the joseki before but I really like the resulting shape

3 Likes

Josekle #25 (14 moves, hard)
:white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

2 Likes

Regular Josekle

Josekle #25 (8 moves)
:purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

Hard

Josekle #25 (14 moves, hard)
:white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::purple_circle:
:purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

Seems a bit much to call this a joseki when the following is the entire corpus of its play in Waltheri.

According to that database, itā€™s only been played twice, both times by Hashimoto Utaro and both times in the 1920s.

2 Likes

I think the current method of selecting josekis is good, but of course there are ways to improve it. Iā€™d be willing to spend some time doing that, but at the moment I donā€™t quite know where to start.

1 Like

I guess the question is, should it be in OJE at all? Or maybe it should still be there but not tagged with ā€œJosekiā€, or tagged with something indicating its uncommonness?

I think the options are:

  • Lobby OGS devs to open up access to OJE to add better tagging
  • Manually curate the collection we have scraped

When putting the new collection together, I wasnā€™t sure either of these had a clear pathā€¦

2 Likes

Iā€™d like to check the josekis from OJE against how common they are (e.g. according to Waltheri). Tags could also help.

I think rarely played sequences maybe shouldnā€™t be part of the daily solutions, but should still be part of the joseki dictionary.

1 Like

Is there a reason to check against Waltheri specifically? I was under the impression it didnā€™t actually search the whole database for particular positions. TBH I donā€™t really understand how it works at all. Is it a better option than GoGoD?

1 Like

All Iā€™d want is a curation procedure, that I could automate to some extent and that takes into consideration how complex sequences and their branches are and how common they are.

2 Likes

I dunno if josekis have to be popular.

Popularity is not a proof of quality in itself.
Unpopularity is good for inspiration (Playing go) and difficulty (Playing josekle)

5 Likes

The unpopular ones might be especially good for hard mode :thinking:

1 Like

Fusekle #7 (8 moves)
:purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

Fusekle #8 (8 moves)
:green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

By the way, a slight change to Fusekle is now live. The puzzles have now been randomly flipped and rotated. Maybe most people would not have even noticed, unless you were using the polite triangle as a hint for the first move.

Josekle #26 (7 moves)
:white_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle::white_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::white_circle::purple_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::white_circle::purple_circle:
:green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle::green_circle:

4 Likes

I like that. First corner is too much of a hint.

2 Likes