KataGo 7 komi self-play games

Yup :,( Waiting for them, too

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Game 30 (NZ rules, 7 komi) sees a similar crash. After white plays G4 at move 172, black’s winrate drops from around 54 % (even score) to around 27 % (white by ~ 12 points). In the end, white wins by at least 38 points. This game includes a high playout variation at move 32 that I couldn’t keep from displaying as the main variation.

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Game 31 (NZ rules, 7 komi) is the eleventh and last game continued from game 1, move 14, white D12 (the attach to black’s pincer). It was a fitting end for the series in that it saw black mirroring that same position in the opposite corner. :slight_smile: White wins by at least 10 points.

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After an unusual upper-left joseki that I intend to explore some further, game 32 (NZ rules, 7 komi) sees white trying to live Cho-Chihun-style in the center. Very fascinating fighting going on. White wins by at least 6 points.

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Game 33 (NZ rules, 7 komi) turns into a drawn-out complicated ko fight and astonishingly (?) ends as a tie. Played out to the last move.

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Game 34 (NZ rules, 7 komi) was (at least on the surface level) very peaceful. After 206 moves, white is firmly ahead by 2 points.

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Game 35 (NZ rules, 7 komi) turned into one of the most complicated-looking center fights we’ve seen so far, even though it settles quite peacefully as a tie. Split off from game 19.

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Game 36 (NZ rules, 7 komi) had another absolutely fascinating opening, a complicated fighting midgame, and a beautiful endgame that involved a ko that was fought for 73 moves. White wins by 2 points.

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Game 37 (NZ rules, 7 komi) IMO has the most bewildering, alien early midgame we’ve seen so far. Moves 15 - 40 or so are straight-up incomprehensible to this 11k. Of course, everything resolves in a beautiful endgame and whaddya know, it’s our ninth tie (played out to the last move). Our current tally: 9 black wins, 9 ties, 19 white wins. Next up: Cross fuseki!

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Move 20 impressive. And then we’ll that’s too much for me too…

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In game 37, I don’t understand White A12 right at the end. It doesn’t seem to be worth anything, and black then makes a point by playing F12. Am I mistaken?

I think New Zealand scoring is area rules. In the game black got 2 points by play f12 but white got the last dame point.

I think if white played f12, it would actually be black who gets the last dame point.

I think then that this apparent one point difference cancels out in area scoring?

It would lose a point under territory scoring.

Oh, ok. I have no idea about the different ways of scoring, I vaguely assumed it hardly ever makes any difference. So dame points matter somehow? Wow. I learned ( I think ) under Japanese rules, although to be honest I am quite vague on rules, or how territory is actually counted. My vague understanding is you remove dead stones at the end of the game, then count the empty points in the surrounded areas. A dead stone counts as a point, an empty point counts as a point. So playing inside your own territory loses a point, playing in your opponent’s territory also loses a point. It’s a long time ago now I learned the game, and frankly I don’t think I have ever seen an actual set of rules.

Ok… I did some googling, and it explains here:

“Note that under rules other than Japanese, filling a dame gains a point.”

http://www.britgo.org/rules/compare.html

Well I never!

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Area scoring is simply: every spot on the board you occupy or surround is a point (captured stones don’t matter).

So unless you have sekis, generally every game both players on-the-board scores will sum up to 361 = 19x19 since every spot is owned by someone. Whoever occupies more of the board (but adjusted for komi) wins.

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To understand why it’s (almost) the same result, you can add stones to the emptyness because both players will play finally the same quantity of stones on the board.

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I think though in this game with territory scoring white would’ve actually gained a point by playing f12. There are going to be minor endgame differences depending on area/territory scoring.

Game 38 (NZ rules, 7 komi) looked relatively human (or at least understandable to humans) for the first 40 moves or so. White wins by 2 points.

Kata got mad at me for calling the previous game understandable by humans. Game 39 (NZ rules, 7 komi) is another absolutely alien-like game that involves incredible trades resulting in large territories on both sides and a breathtaking tie. Don’t sleep on this one.

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EverettLiu, OGS 9d EverettLiu has left comments on this game. I’ve updated the OGS review, adding some bonus KataGo variations as well.

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Anton Christenson, EGF 3d did a 45-minute YouTube review of this game!

I’ve added all of his (commented) variations, plus more KataGo variations, to the OGS review as well:

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