Language Learners' Library

Lately I’ve been interested in skaldic poetry, which is a rhymeless alliterative style used traditionally to compose in the Old Norse language, which was spoken and written in Medieval Scandinavia.

It’s either through skaldic poetry, or in the service of promoting it, that most of Norse mythology descends to us. And yes, obviously I’ve been watching a lot of Jackson Crawford lately. The word skaldic derives from Old Norse skald, poet, likely of Germanic origin.

Whilst we’re at it, here is an example of another rhymeless poetry tradition, the Finnish sagas collected into the Kalevala. Note that the Finnish language is not, at heart, closely related to Old Norse or indeed to any major European language besides Estonian, being a member of the Finno-Ugric rather than Indo-European family.

In the Norse sagas, Finno-Ugric speakers (including both settled peoples and the nomadic Sami / Lapps) were usually associated with magic.

Here’s also a musical rendition of Medieval English epic poetry, the Arthurian legends.

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Algorithm did me some good and offered kabuki with English commentary and Japanese subtitles.

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I like this translation style! Neither a sub nor a dub, it’s simultaneously authentic and accessible.

Now I understand what you mean about voice-over-original.

New video from NativLang

And from Crawford

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Ⲡⲉⲓ ⲟⲩⲉⲧⲛⲁⲛⲟⲩϥ ⲡⲉ

This forum seems to have some issues with lowercase ϥ

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Let’s see how the vocabularies of Interlingua and Esperanto compare to Latin and Spanish.

cue xkcd “I’ve created a unifying standard to replace the eight competing ones… now there are nine competing standards.”

English Latin Spanish Interlingua Esperanto
tree arbor árbol arbore arbo
leaf folium hoja (cf. folio) folio folio
fruit frúctus fruta fructos frukto
mouse (or rat) mús ratón mus muso
rabbit cunículus conejo conilio kuniklo
cat cattus / félis gato catto kato
dog canis can can hundo
deer cervus ciervo cervo cervo
cow vacca / bós vaca vacca bovino
fish piscis pez pisce fiŝo
crab cancer cangrejo crabba / cancere krabo
house domus (cf. casa, “hut”) casa casa / domo domo
bread panis pan pan pano
honey mel miel melle mielo
flower flós flor flor floro
sun sól sol sol suno
moon lúna luna luna luno
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As well as the full-length videos on the latintutorial channel (which is an excellent resource), there are a lot of interesting short ones as well.

I was just watching this video about the use of C, K, and Q in Early Latin. To summarise, in Early Latin:

  • K was used before A
  • Q was used before U
  • and C was used before any other vowel

Like in Classical Latin, they all had the pronunciation /k/.

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New video from latintutorial (well, two days old)

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It’s really cool to see your enthusiasm about Latin.

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I watched these videos last night, which were helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5qLUkb4Ctw How Latin Does And
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt08XaY5Mgw Further examples of at, atque, and -que

Here are some other interesting, and informative, short videos from the channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik4yloCszYo The Origin of Roman Numerals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pz1KiILdW2s Suovetaurilia, Sacrifice with a Pig, a Sheep, and a Bull
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CcWDqUJakY The October Horse: Animal Sacrifice to Mars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTspIT5rsbA The SATOR ROTAS Magic Square
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5fLQI5TPis Hannibals’s Jest: Roman Plunder
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m7LX_T_K8w The Multiple Meanings of secundus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fxh5dM4PBNw Cervus, a Metaphor for Runaway Slaves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ivFF5FZ1WU Synchysis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zQv0ktmeFc Litotes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAeTN3bIko0 Two Sayings by Augustus on Vegetables
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SAZ1ft06rw The Colors of Latin


I notice that he uses the z = /dz/ pronunciation, whereas I use z = /z/.

Kennedy’s Revised Latin Primer (1962) specifies

z as z in lazy or as dz in adze

The Oxford Latin Desk Dictionary (2005) says

Consonants are pronounced as in modern English, but note the following:

And makes a list of exceptions, which doesn’t contain z.

The Wikipedia article Latin phonology and orthography adds even more mud to the water, saying

/z/ was … not native to Classical Latin. It appeared in Greek loanwords starting around the first century BC, when it was probably pronounced [z] initially and doubled [zz] between vowels … In Classical Latin poetry, the letter ⟨z⟩ between vowels always counts as two consonants for metrical purposes.

What do you generally go for?

I just say z.

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Etymology channel – started in October by an old uni buddy of Crawford.

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Note: there are 8 separate maps

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On a funny note, this is quite interesting as well :slight_smile:

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Translingual question! :smile:

“Alberto” is an Italian name. It’s quite common and doesn’t have particular meanings in Italian, AFAIK.

I have suspicions though that in some other language it could have some. Do you know anything about it? Both from your native language or from others, if you have notion.

I mean specifically the Italian version, not the corresponding names in other languages.

I already found a couple of kdrama using that name for very particular characters. Hearing that word with Korean pronunciation is quite hilarious. :grin:

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[Alberto is the] shorter form of Adalberto, from Latin Adalbertus, from Frankish *Aþalberht.
– Wiktionary

The asterisk indicates that *Aþalberht is an unattested word arrived at by linguistic reconstruction.
þ, the thorn, has the pronunciation /θ/, which is the th in thin (but not in that).

Frankish is an extinct West Germanic language spoken between the fourth and eighth centuries CE.
During its period as a living language, it was contemporary to Late Latin, the vague “Proto-Romance” language(s), and the early Romance languages proper, as Latin gradually broke up with the disintegration of the Roman Empire.

Frankish was also contemporary to Gothic, the most famous member of the East Germanic languages, a group that is now totally extinct. Modern Germanic languages fall into either the Western or Northern group.

So, what does *Aþalberht, and thus Alberto, mean? Like many old Germanic names, it’s a combination of two parts. *aþal is defined as “noble” and *berht as “bright, shining”.*Aþalberht is, of course, the root of not just Alberto but also English Albert and German Albrecht.

In Old English, both *aþal and *berht continued to be popular name elements. *aþal evolved into Æþel-, eg. in Æþelred. In Modern English, Æ is usually pronounced as /ɛ/ (“beg”), but would in Old English have been /æ/, which is a sort of elongated A sound, like in “bag”.

*berht often became -bert, although variant forms are also attested, like -beorht and -bryht. The Æþelbert name was revived in 19th-century England with a modernised spelling, as Ethelbert, but this name doesn’t appear to be in use any more.

We can also dig further into the etymology. The reconstructed ancestor of Frankish *aþal, again according to Wiktionary, is Proto-Germanic *aþala, with the meaning “nobility, race, nature, disposition”. The ancestor of *berht is reconstructed as Proto-Germanic *berhtaz, with the same meaning of “bright” or “shining”. Proto-Germanic was contemporaneous with Classical Latin, and received some attention from Tacitus in his late first-century book Germania.

For some context to this period of linguistic history, here’s a Crawford video discussing a section of that book, which describes Germanic culture of the time.

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In an explanation by Crawford of a scene in Vǫlundarkviða, The Saga of Volund, he discusses an interesting passage which shows the Norse pronoun system at work.

In Old Norse, nouns could have three genders: masculine (all male), feminine (all female), and neuter (either “true neuter” or mixed male and female). This differs from Latin and the Romance languages, in which a mixed-gender group is considered masculine (even though Latin did have a neuter gender).

This passage describes how the (male) warriors Egil, Slagfinn, and the titular Volund encounter the valkyrie women Olrún, Svanhvít, and Alvitr, going on to marry them under ambiguous circumstances.

“Snemma of morgin fundu þeir á vatnsstrǫndu konur þrjár, ok spunnu lín. Þar váru hjá þeim álptarhamir þeira. Þat váru valkyrjur. … (their names are given) … Þeir hǫfðu þær heim til skála með sér. Fekk Egill Ǫlrúnar en Slagfiðr Svanhvítrar en Vǫlundr Alvitrar. Þau bjuggu sjau vetrar. Þá flugu þær at vitja víga ok kómu eigi aptr.”

“Early in the morning they (:male_sign::male_sign:) found three women on the lakeshore, and (they) were spinning linen. Near them were their swan-skins. These were valkyries. … (their names are given) … They (:male_sign::male_sign:) had them (:female_sign::female_sign:) home with them to (their) hut/cabin/small house. Egil married Olrún and Slagfinn married Svanhvít and Volund married Alvitr. They (:male_sign::female_sign:) dwelled (there) seven winters. Then they (:female_sign::female_sign:) flew to witness battles and did not come back.”

Full text and video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMrYEq_jNVs
Valkyries (Valkyrjur), Jackson Crawford


Going to tack on this unrelated Crawford video as well:

New video from latintutorial’s 91 Rules of Latin Grammar series:

I also found this video on Luke’s pet pronunciation of Ancient Greek, which @Sanonius might find interesting.

Happy 1,111 posts!

How do you say 1,111 or one thousand, one hundred and eleven in your native, target, or else-described languages?

Language In numerals In words
Latin ⅯⅩⅭⅠ (earlier ↀⅩⅭⅠ)* mille et centum et úndecim
* Some discussion about Roman numerals in Unicode

The Roman numerals are actually encoded separately, in Unicode, from any of the alphabetic blocks.

They are instead in the block Number Forms. This can be a handy piece of knowledge if you want to manipulate the spacing of the numerals, since each individual numeral symbol is monospaced in design whereas the compound symbols are not. Although you could just use the < code > tag to provide monospacing if desired.

The following numerals are provided: Ⅰ, Ⅱ, Ⅲ, Ⅳ, Ⅴ, Ⅵ, Ⅶ, Ⅷ, Ⅸ, Ⅹ, Ⅺ, Ⅻ, Ⅼ, Ⅽ, Ⅾ, Ⅿ; all their lowercase equivalents, and the archaic / variant symbols ↀ (1000), ↁ (5000), ↂ (10,000), ↅ (6), ↆ (50), ↇ (50,000), and ↈ (100,000).

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Why do some words have two tones? E.g. Κωμωδία at 2:52 or Λουκιανής at 0:24 ?

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