English and German are cousin languages. 
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English is related to everyone 
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I will say, ref enforcing rules by the letter is one thing. Byun going out of his way to summon the refs and point it out comes off to me as really scummy and cheap.
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I guess I could see your perspective when you say that you dislike the rule. However, I don’t see how the rule is “unfair”. It applies to each player equally.
Hard to say. In the end you need to live with the penalty that resulted from your rule infraction.
You are technically correct here. The cup has been going since May 2024 and the new penalty specification has been added in November 2024. This is obviously not ideal. One thing is that the tournament does not have its own ruleset but instead relies on the KBA rules. So this was not something the tournament organizers did intentionally. Then you also have to see that this tournament goes almost the whole year so naturally it is difficult for a KBA rule change to take place outside of the running tournament. But most importantly the Korean rules have always specified that the captured stones shall be put into the lid. It is just that the ruleset was updated in November 2024 to specifiy how exactly this rule infraction shall be handled.
You are wrong.
This is also wrong.
Players pointing out rule infractions of their opponents is pretty much the norm in sports.
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This one was a joke.
Maybe in Europe. I’m reminded of all the fish pretending to be soccer players. In Australia players are expected to play and leave officiating to the officials. Fans are usually quite unforgiving here when players stop playing the game to make outlandish appeals to the officials.
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It surprises me that they’d choose either Black or White as the color of the enclosing shield box - it’s not psychologically neutral. I’d expect either 50% greyscale, or the same wood as the goban. insightful observations from the DDK
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I suppose Swedish and German are somewhat mutually intelligable, but Swedish is a north Germanic language, while German is a west Germanic language like Dutch and English.
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This is different though. The fish are faking an infraction, or exaggerating an event to let its severity cross the line of being an infraction. That’s different from informing a ref of an actual infraction, without exaggeration or lying.
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I feel like one easily becomes the other. Both are taking your mind off the play of the game to communicate with the refs.
Here is a link to talk about the Chinese team and their leader, And he even talk about what happened in the 2nd day, you can clearly see the Chinese team here in the live stream, the player, the leader 俞斌, the translator, etc. Major title match is not just a game for individual player, and there is always a team to accompany the player, from the leader/coach, to translater and even players to help them prepare. Withdraw (退賽) is always an option, which usually leads to very serious events, and led to two associations’ relationship breaking up, and historically the most severe incident was in the 2nd Ing’s Cup, where all the Chinese players withdrew (for various reasons, and some are political consider the Taiwan and the mainland China relationship at the time). The CWA definitely has the power to force players to withdraw (although recently most criticized they didn’t do or stand their ground firmly, so people hardly notice their impact)
And I see you take this like a joke, using emoji and just flat-out claiming things not true (like putting on the lead rules was there in the old rules, here is the historical page in Oct 2024). I saw quite a few people, who didn’t take this seriously and said rules are rules, or why cannot Ke Jie was so childish (or even worse word), and could not follow simple instructions? History will remember this event, and will have big impact on the CWA and KBA relationship, and if not handled properly by the KBA, this can get political very quickly and escalate, especially when nationalist emotions get riled up which we have already seen. The fact remains that the rules as they are right now (whether how they are worded, and how rulings are enforced) disrupted games that could have been finished easily and left everyone with incomplete games is a big red flag as to it is not working as it should.
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It’s indeed inappropriate to say “unfair” if examining it rigorously. I’ll call it “ridiculous” which perhaps is more accurate.
I shall reiterate one key thing here. Rules are made to foster the sport itself not to impose obstacles. We see improved rules in soccer and all competitive sport matches because they help create a “enjoyable” matches for viewers and in turn facilitate individual abilities, team work, and strategies. That’s why we see each professional soccer team is significantly better than similar team 50 years ago. Rules allow players to focus more on the matches. That’s what we aim to achieve. When rules deviate from its fundamental principles, of course it’s for both players, but it distracts the meaning of matches to other meaningless chores. Does it help propagate the sport? Does it help players to have a more enjoyable and high quality match? Does it allow players to concentrate more on the matches? No one would like to see the result of FIFA World Cup is determined by anything other than a competitive game where players show their abilities, and we will be glad to accept any results. Clearly, such rule and how it’s actually implemented don’t seem to help Go at all.
Second, talking about fairness. Taking a more extreme example, I’d like to hear more ideas. Suppose Ivy League Universities clearly indicate they’ll only admit students who can pay their tuition, which hypothetically is raised to $500,000 per year. Would you say the rule is fair? We can definitely say the rule is made for anyone thus it’s fair. However, I suppose there will hardly be anyone who could agree on that. But to make a concession, I’ll stick to “Ridiculous” which is only my opinion.
In this Go Forum, all of us would like to improve our own skills and see Go becomes more a popular sport. That’s why we care about worldwide competitions and communicate in such a way. Hope to hear others’ voices!
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If people really read the new Korean rules, they will know how they can use the arbitrary details to interrupt the game. If you read article 18, you will find the 7th rule is the referee can issue a penalty of two points without warning when accumulated two warnings. So let’s see what are the rules for giving “warnings”
This is article 17 for the “warnings”
제17조 주의
-심판은 선수가 다음 각호의 행위를 한 것을 적발하면 주의를 줄 수 있다.
- 제7조 제5항 제1호 제가목에 따라 선수가 제출한 전자기기에서 소리나 진동이 발생한 경우
- 제13조 제6항(화장실 사용)을 위반한 경우
- 제14조(계시기 사용)를 위반한 경우
- 상대방에게 불쾌감을 주는 말이나 행동(예 : 콧노래 부르기, 부채·호두알 등으로 소리를 내는 행위, 바둑돌을 잘그락거리며 소리를 내는 행위 등)
- 선수의 이의제기가 잘못된 경우
- 계시기에 손을 올려놓는 경우나, 착점한 손이 아닌 다른 손으로 계시기를 누르는 경우
- 선수가 고의로 대국을 지연시키는 경우(경기 중 고의 착점포기 등)
- 기타 심판이 판단할 때 경기에 방해되는 행위
Article 17 Warnings
The referee can give warnings based on the following actions
- Electronic devices permitted in Article 7, Paragraph 5, Item 1 making a sound
- Violation of Article 13, paragraph 6 (5 regulations of using the toilet)
- Violation of Article 14 (4 regulations about how to press the clock)
- Behaviors that make the opponent upset (singing, humming, using objects like
a fan too noisy, clamping the stones too loudly, etc.) - Players making objections deemed invalid by the referee
- Players put their hand on the clock, or press the clock not with the hand putting down the stone
- Players delay the game (taking too long to make a move in their turn)
- Any other behaviors deemed by the referee to interfere with the game.
So let’s say you read through all these, and say I know all the rules and after four moves the referee comes onto the stage and says, you were given a penalty because you were given warnings because they deemed your behavior when clicking the stones are too loud, two points off. And you take it, say rules are rules, and after another two moves, the referee comes into the stage again and says your opponent wins because you were given another two warnings and became a penalty and then a forfeit. They say they are just following their new rules and it is your fault that you don’t understand how they make their rulings.
This is the extreme case but showcases how the actions-based rules where details are all deemed by referees can seriously cause disruption if they deem fit (even if you object you are out, since they can deem the objection invalid and that’s another warning). And how ridiculous can it become if they really don’t care about the decency of the game and the spirit of the game and just winning.
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Byun Sangil’s interviews after the ceremony.
http://baduk.lg.co.kr/kor/news_view.asp?gdiv=0&gul_no=531409
Just repost from cyberoro
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Behaviors that make the opponent upset
Opponent playing good moves and killing my group upset me.
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More than half of the warnings are purely subjective rules. Like what consisted of making a player upset (can the player levy this to get a warning, but get more time to think, even if they got one warning by invalid objection?), and how long of a “delay” is too much? Can’t players take time to think anymore? Some are purely by the referee’s whim, “other interferences” and objections invalid.
All the rules are worded like some kind of laws with references and articles, but filled with subjective rules an undefined actions that can get players a warning or penalty, and no objection channel since objections are purely determined by referees to deem valid or not. Almost designed to be use as technicality machine for referee to interfere with the games.
Also it promotes bad behavior instead of a good manner. One of the four regulations for pressing the clock, the first one is that the player must press the clock immediately after making a move. So if your opponent forgets to press the clock, instead of helping your opponent’ the best option is to raise your hand and pause the time in your time to tell the referee to give your opponent a warning, and the more the better, since it gave you extra points if they did it again (and even win you the game by forfeit, and you got extra time to think, why not?). Does this type of rule really in the spirit of making the game run better?
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I don’t understand this rule, isn’t there a clock for that?
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Translated and posted here in case anyone wants to read
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His response is appropriate.
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I don’t understand either. And I suspect it has to do with their live streaming in the Korean league. Everyone has a main time to play usually in an hour, but imagine if a player just starts the game and then just sits there for the whole duration of the main time. What would it look like for the live stream?
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It does look weird. My guess is that it applies when you spend your time not at the table but doing other things to deliberately use up the time rather than play the game. Just like how some players online deliberately let the time run out instead of resigning when they are losing
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