LG Cup Gate

General Go Discussion
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But communication usually involves more than just reading or listening. You tend to need to know or understand the context.

If you interview a sports fan after a game where the deciding or winning factor was something controversial, a last minute penalty, a foul that leads to some extra points, or just generally something people would disagree with is fair play or so on, you might hear

  • X didn’t win, they cheated
  • X didn’t win, we were robbed or we lost
  • X didn’t win, such and such shouldn’t have been allowed (wrong decision)

It’s not that hard to think that X did win, by whatever the rules of the game were, but it wasn’t deserved and it should be or will be appealed.

Let’s say you watch Cristian Chirilă react to Magnus and Ian splitting the World Blitz championship title

and he says things like

I feel like okay but this is cutting some slack to to the players which I feel should be the recipient of
somewhat of a backlash because you cannot split a world championship title

and

I mean this is just simply is not going to bode well bode well for who for the players first of all this is not a world championship title they have right now I mean this is this is BS

do you think he literally means they don’t have a world championship title, and that you cannot split a world championship title, despite the fact that that’s what FIDE, Magnus and Ian agreed to and that’s what happened?

Because

this just seems like a way to not even try to understand someone.

In fact I would argue that communication only becomes a nightmare when one person refuses to try to understand what the other is saying, as you’re explaining above.

I haven’t disagreed on any fact like

All I’m doing is trying to give the benefit of the doubt to @Counting_Zenist who is obviously unhappy about the result, and I don’t believe they don’t believe the result is a “fact” as if it never happened, or happened differently than what we can all see, but rather disagrees with the outcome strongly.

I take this sort of stuff in the same way you might dispute whether Kramnik is really a World Chess champion if he beat Kasparov when he had split from FIDE and had the title stripped from him etc.

The facts are the results of matches, and then the rest is just semantics and interpretations.

It’s like you can debate whether the so called “World Go Championship” is really a world championship, which upon winning lends you a legitimate claim to be called World Champion?

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122

I would like clarification also, because if it is truly a belief that Byun Sangil didn’t win, in the sense of being declared a winner by the organisers/sponsors, as opposed to “being a winner” in a deserved sense, like winning without technicalities, then I apologise to @Regenwasser for my misinterpretation of what I was reading up to now.

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I just bought a go set and the bowls don’t have lids.

Guess I must practice to win without taking any stones

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124

Reverse capture go

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The question was if Byun Sangil has won the 29th LG Cup or not. If there was any kind of misunderstanding then I’d of course appreciate it if the other side could clear this up.

I really hope this whole thing pushes the Baduk community closer together in the end. The result needs to be accepted by all sides and then we should start working on a unified set of Go rules to avoid stuff like this in the future.

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I actually completely agree as well. It’s not even easy to promote the game when at the top level there’s rules disputes and misunderstandings with quadruple ko or seki or other things.

Probably something like AGA (even though I’m not a fan of superko), because it can deal with territory and area counting, and then add in some meta rules and leniencies for tournaments to do with clocks, prisoners stones, toilet breaks and whatever else :slight_smile:

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127

And a video to go with it

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Goodness.

Couldn’t he just have pointed at those stones once or twice to remind Ke Jie?
I mean … is just a little courtesy so much outside people’s imagination?

I must live in a different universe.

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129

A bit of a digression from the current discussion, but I’m curious about this quote. If giving a player a two-point advantage essentially decides the game, how did players win with white before there was komi? Is it because players are stronger now which makes a two-point advantage harder to overcome?

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I’ve seen so many memes about this it’s not funny anymore (lol).
Anyway to give a serious reply, what I heard is that you can just request for a new lid, just like how you can get a new bowl of stones when you run out of stones. I mean, you don’t just lose when you have no more stones to use right?

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Right, right, but you do have to quickly make some new ones, via the painstaking tradition methods of manual grinding, all the while time is taken off your clock.

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My take on this is that crazy things happen at the very highest level when the pressure is immense. Add this to the fact the Byun doesn’t perform well under pressure (remember his game against Choi Jeong?) and he’s socially awkward, he may have been really confused after Ke Jie doing the thing again after the first warning and could not concentrate at all. The stone that Ke Jie left on the table was just in his face and once he saw that he couldn’t think about anything else. In order to solve the problem, he chose to point it out to the judge.

Look at it from another perspective. Ke Jie kept making the same mistake even though he was warned, given penalty, and even given a loss. Many people say it’s because he is highly concentrated in the game and couldn’t care about anything else. So people do weird things under high pressure. Same goes for Byun. So why are we only criticising Byun and not Ke Jie?

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Because Ke Jie’s mistake comes across only as incredibly stupid, and we see those every day. Byun’s mistake comes across as somewhat unsporting, and people get much more passionate about that :man_shrugging:

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Granted many people say the new rule is stupid (which I agree to a certain extent), many people seem to ignore the fact that all these drama could’ve been avoided if Ke Jie just put the stones in the lid, be it after the warning or after the forfeit. I wonder if things would’ve been the same if the player was not Ke Jie, or if the rule broken was something else such not pressing the clock in time.

There was a question asking what would people do if they were Ke Jie, and I said that if I were Ke Jie I would put the stones in the lid lol.

I’m not saying we should blame xxx instead of xxx, but just saying that we should look at things from more perspectives.

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The only things I could agree in favor of Ke Jie are:

  • Immediate 2-point penalty seems harsh. In my view a warning could do on the first offense.

  • Game interruption on the opponent’s turn does sound like a legitimate concern.

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136

The argument against this is: “You are the one who made the mistake, you still expect the game to be paused when it’s convenient for you??”

But yeah, I agree intervention and pausing the game is a very big concern. Maybe if they just gave the penalty without pausing the game there wouldn’t be such a big issue. Recently I’ve been seeing the black box so frequently I think something should be done about it.

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Update:

Now not just the Chinese Go League, but even the Mlily Cup sponsor also expressed intention to prohibit Byun from participating in the next Mlily Cup.

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I know it’s a complete thing. I personally think it’s wrong for Sinai to do what he did, especially in the final. If it was in the preliminaries until the quarterfinals, it would still be okay, but in my opinion, when you reach the quarterfinals, you have to follow the rules, not do what you think you want.

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And don’t make it political.

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