Does North Korea have any organized Go anymore. I read that they organized the Go in North Korea like in the 1990s and early 2000s and participated often in World Amateur Go Championship with good results, but it seems that North Korea has dopped out of international Go after Alpha Go. Do they still participate in international amateur championships? Are the top North Korean players able to use AI to train, or is the lack of AI training the reason why North Korea has given up on Go?
7 Likes
Not surprisingly is that there is not much info to be found on baduk in north Korea. Also wonder whether go / weiqi / baduk can flourish in totalitarian countries.
North Korea is a member of the International Go Federation (DPR Korea: Democratic People’s Republic Korea) Joined in 1991.
IGF General Members – Website of The International Go Federation
In the World Amateur Go Championship’s between 1997 and 2010 they scored some second and third places.
Baduk Association of DPR Korea
North Korea – Website of The International Go Federation
Minimal info in this link.
2 Likes
I think Covid reduced their willingness to travel internationally for a while.
2 Likes
I’m not sure why they wouldn’t be able to. They have computers, and strong open source models are available. I’m assuming pro Go programs would be state-sponsored, so the someone would have internet access to download.
Side note: they also used to build Go AI, but that was pre-AlphaGo, it would not be of much use to Pros.
1 Like
Should AI fill the gaps in the information system? I mean that pic…
North Korean go players had many times difficulties to travel to attend international tournaments, that’s not new. And I won’t speculate with some lack of information about go in north Korea. Nothing prove your hypothesis on not accessing AI or giving up playing.
Thanks, I found an article on the topic that was not behind a paywall 'North Korea was once AI powerhouse' - The Korea Times
1 Like
What I meant by using AI is that if I have understood correctly it is mostly only the elite that has access to personal computers in North Korea, which would mean that only the children of the elite would then theoretically from childhood be able to use AI (and play online) to train in Go while in South Korea, Japan, and China more children would have access to computers which would help them develop as Go players (playing online and using AI) so more people would have an advantage to develop early as Go players using IT than in North Korea.
In any case this was the column from 2007 about Go in North Korea that I read, and I wondered what happened since nowadays you hear nothing about Go in North Korea.
1 Like
It was a go bot in the early 2000s, but not using techniques like neural networks which is what is typically required to get the “AI” label. It was rather controversial, with earlier versions being accused of plagairizing other bots, see Silver Star at Sensei's Library.
AI is a treadmill phrase. At some point, neural nets will no longer be considered sufficient to be called AI 
2 Likes
Well yes, I prefer “machine learning” rather than AI for AlphaGo. Then again I did create the page AI revolution at Sensei's Library 
1 Like
Uhm…
1 Like
Yes, it seems a stretch to consider playing go as undermining the authority of the dictator party/president/chairman, but chairman Mao still went after go players during the Cultural Revolution as part of his anti-intellectual purge.
4 Likes
Despite being invented in China, Go was made popular by feudal Japan. Would you not describe that system as totalitarian? 
2 Likes
Important thing to underline is that unlike in Mao’s times, go was still something in North Korea. To get strong players my guess is it should be still something practiced by more as a few people. Maybe part of the education program?
Access to AI: we don’t know. We know about K-pop Kdrama and firewall etc… but for go we don’t. Who has access if any and where (maybe in some kind of go clubs or go schools?).
Besides closing access to AI for children may be a pain, but that doesn’t mean the end of getting some strong players through teachers aware of the AI revolution (if there is some access for them.)
Anyway it’s all imagination from us till we get some news. Last participation in the world amateur being in 2012, finishing 5th.
7 Likes
In the video 8 and in the last, there is a date 2019. Nice to hear that baduk is still running there (but didn’t see any computer)
Yes, and I found nothing about the time after 2019, but I assume then that Covid had a big impact.
2 Likes
I stand corrected. They still organize tournaments in North Korea:
http://kcna.kp/en/article/q/56b7377813241437999773a5188acd91.kcmsf
http://kcna.kp/en/article/q/89e699e0b9a6c2002055d18905eb7d1e.kcmsf
http://kcna.kp/en/article/q/97919e50b3d0df5d99db8662422b84f0.kcmsf
http://kcna.kp/en/article/q/4829e8041ca6bd7d5b191c719fb0f9a4.kcmsf
http://kcna.kp/en/article/q/a0435fcd408117ead8689d2b546597dd.kcmsf
http://kcna.kp/en/article/q/8a978b3e8d7858d40cb50173b4222d30.kcmsf
http://kcna.kp/en/article/q/9d0228d45752341a0c85d80fff6a1398.kcmsf
Here are photos from this year: KCNA | Photo | National Martial Art Championships Opens
I find it at bit funny that they have classified Go (Paduk) as a mental martial art in North Korea so the North Korean Taekwon-Do Organization is responsible for Go (and now also Korean Chess).
4 Likes
Apparently the Pyongyang Times has a sport section at the end where there is sometimes information about the national Paduk (Go/Weiqi/Baduk) tournaments. Both Go and Korean Chess are included at the national tournaments and under the auspice of the Taekwondo federation in North Korea.
https://www.pyongyangtimes.com.kp/pdf?num=1
Someone should perhaps update the article on Go in North Korea on Sensei Library.
2 Likes
I absolutely disagree. Current Large Language Models confuse the issue, because their use of neural nets is primitive.
Neural nets are how the human brain works. If they have the right structure, they can model objective reality well, enabling us to lead an intelligent life.
The human neural net is not fully known as yet (the visual processing net is fairly well understood), so no computer system can be trained to be like a human in intelligence.
But that doesn’t mean that neural nets are a dead end. They are the right approach, but have to be structured sufficiently well (in terms of neural layers and connectivity) to reach the goal of full intelligence.
1 Like