I think you’re speaking past each other.
I agree with you that a friend probably wouldn’t want to receive such an answer, but @Regenwasser is not trying to be helpful, he’s just trying to find a wording, no matter how nitpicky, that puts OGS #1 and is technically correct.
Wow, this really is the toughest of courts I guess 
Ok, I’ll try one more time. This one is going to be bullet proof.
Play Go/Baduk Online on the #1 Web App!
Join X+ thousand players on the world’s largest web-based Go Server and play Go instantly in your browser!
True, I believe that is what is called marketing. If you make a cornflakes commercial you also want to make it sound good. But if I’d propose to create the slogan “The best cereals in the universe” then I’m sure Groin would say “Are you sure there are no aliens somewhere in the universe that have better cereals”. No, but seriously I think its good that @Groin is challenging the slogan. We wouldn’t want to lose anyone’s trust by them getting the idea that we’re bullshitting. Hoping the new version goes through!
Now that’s no more a lie. I agree.
If it’s a good sentence in the view of selling OGS is the next subject.
You and I like that OGS is a web app. Is it something essential for others to attract them? Well I dunno really and for example there are enough people more interested in an app as in a web app so that someone made apps for those people. That could mitigate our enthusiasm.
Maybe you don’t mean anything by it but it is a little unfortunate that you’re using the term “lie” in this context because I just got accused of lying (which I didn’t do) earlier in the thread.
I think if my first two slogans are technically correct or not is somewhat up to debate. I think “lying” is a very strong word here though. Because I definitely didn’t think they were incorrect when I wrote them.
I guess if that slogan is worth putting on the site is up to debate. As well as if such a landing page with a slogan should even be created in the first place.
But I think what I wrote sounds great and shows where OGS really shines: being the largest web-based Go Server. If people are searching for that they can stop looking as soon as they reached the landing page of OGS because now they know they’ve found the #1.
What you are saying sounds like
OGS is a Go Server but definitely not the biggest there are much bigger ones in Asia also there are others in the western world too. Have you tried KGS? Oh and yeah it’s a web app but I mean do you even like web apps? Maybe you prefer a client app then you should try Fox or Tygem, they’re bigger anyways! Yeah sometimes I don’t find games on OGS for minutes. Hmm. I don’t know maybe you like it maybe not. But welcome on our website!
I respect your idea of a slogan too. But I would still go with mine.
I’ll raise you one better (found this on https://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments/1sj0zno/the_original_board_game/):
Why is this your first post on the website? Hop off my nuts
Yep, originally I joined OGS chat to aggressively market using bold claims, rudeness, whatever means possible (I was desperate to make something by the end of the year) my upcoming original board game server, but I ended up being unsatisfied with the final game design and my DX tools (i need them to avoid burnout) stalled. There’s people who have been waiting for my website since December, unfortunately. My ideas have gotten infinitely better since then though, so if any one of them is reading this – sorry, and it’ll be worth the wait.
For an example of what I mean by “DX tools”, here is an example – it was what I was working on in August 2025 before I joined OGS chat and got addicted to playing/studying Go instead:
I need to make these kinds of web apps for private use to manage my game assets, designs, drafts, notes, etc. And VSCode extensions to improve my coding productivity.
(before anyone roasts my game design: I spent only 2 hours on this, and it was the first draft, v0.1)
Before joining OGS chat and forums, I thought Go was boring. I only played it because it was a convenient, fast (ultra blitz), and decently fun game I could play with one hand while eating food at my desk. So it wasn’t a waste of my time.
It’s quite sad to see this post having degraded to
Shamisen showing a narcissistic side that is honestly very off putting to say the least. I will add in that regard that I myself squeezed by my Masters in mathematics by cramming 2 months of course work in 1-2 days of studying, I also have diagnosed ADHD, and have competed in elite athletics for many years. And still, I know people far more talented than me in all those regards combined, who make my achievements seem like dirt on the window in comparison, and not once will they stroke their own ego in the way which has been done in this thread. Confidence is charming, talent is enticing, but what has been displayed here is disgusting behaviour that creates not an ounce of positivity. However talented you may be, there are far more productive ways to use your time then glazing yourself to this degree. This goes for anyone doing this, but now specifically Shamisen. “The strong man uplifts himself, the stronger man uplifts others”
People generally using strong and vindictive language against eachother, packaged with sarcasm. This is an issue in general for most individuals in this thread, and it’s being done over truly insignificant things.
Actual productive discourse existing in-between the lines, but people simply ignoring or drawing conclusions to extremes, instead of ACTIVELY finding common ground. I could not imagine this tactic serving anyone well in the world beyond their internet connection.
At this point, I simply would wish for moderators to close this thread. It serves no further purpose.
@shamisen should have a serious read on this and take it to heart. If you truly do have a narcissistic personality disorder, then that is an almost futile task by cognitive design. A narcissist can almost not admit genuine fault, especially not long term.
If it’s not a genuine disorder (much better case scenario), and only showing a high relatability to these traits, then some soul searching should be done. It is objectively harmful for the individual themselves and also people around them.
I say this with sympathy, not a jabb. I have myself dabbled in unhealthily elevated levels of self centerdnes, combined confidence. And it’s a bad fucking place to be, which only becomes clear once leaving it and having some humbleness and appreciation for others, independently of their talents and abilities. But what you have shown in this thread is nothing short of painful to be around and interact with. Even just the small square containing the text.
I agree. It was sad for me to see people ignoring you when you were trying your absolute best as well, and I’m to blame for initiating that tone of conversation. I accept most of your insults towards me. You were very, very patient and eloquent, even more so than GreenAsJade at times, yet we were too busy belitting each other to focus on your words. I have only admiration for your communication efforts. And this thread should’ve been closed days ago, when people kept talking in circles and talking over each other. Like I said, zero progress made.
Your second post directly towards me was unneeded though. I struggled with narcissistic disorder since grade school and researched it as well. I’m aware and have done enough soul-searching to mostly cure it. The narcissistic traits I display online are almost fully conscious – I play a foolish persona online partly to hide information from my competitors (because I do care about financial success a little bit, at least having enough to not starve).
And I can admit genuine fault – I’ve listed many of them, including dragging negativity into these threads. The bit of showing off I did at the very end, after 200+ posts, was no different from any of you talking about credentials like “I’ve worked in web dev for 15 years”. If I was truly trying to brag, don’t you think I would’ve shown my best work from the very beginning or after the first 20 sarcastic remarks directed at me? Anyways, thank you for your hard work and I wish you had a better experience. I agreed with every word you said in this thread except for the last bit of clear frustration.
A ~30 year old field is basically a newborn baby though. I found a better explanation supporting that UX design began in the 1990s, not 1950:
I want to highlight the word “effortless” in that explanation of what UX design is. Some people here seriously believe, and I have literally quoted them saying so, that OGS doesn’t need to be made easier to use and that people who think so are spoiled children. I’m not the only rude one in here. My patience ran out trying to explain some of these things.
You’re all over the place man 
I say this with the best of intentions. I highly, highly doubt you have cured it to the degree you believe, or that this is only the result of playing a foolish persona. If it is, you should stop with it fully, it seems neither foolish, charming or fun. It is only draining. And I have given a great benefit of doubt for this, until these last few comments where it’s beyond that grace.
If anything you should look into covert narcissism and see if you have not simply transmuted “overt” into “covert" in daily life, and that it slips through as the more grandiose version online.
I can not make an accurate assessment of this via an online forum, that would be unethical and false to assume, but I am saying - if you truly value working on this apparent flaw, and it has been a struggle, then this direction is worth exploring the implications off. And being aware that it could be a cognitive blind spot that not even a greater intellect would bring light to.
And for others: until he shows improvement, simply ignore responding anytime he elicits frustration or anger in you. It is for him to prove a change of behaviour. And if not from personal growth, at the very least his presence on these forums should be feed and starved as necessary. He will adapt either superficially, or (in better case) cognitively.
Also - It’s not all too kind of me to make such an open statement/scrutiny of another person as I have done, but with some protection via online anonymity I felt this would be best as it effects everyone else as well.
Now, after this quite disrespectful analysis, I say this: I deeply respect your skills and opinions @shamisen. You have showed enough analysis and ability in this thread to make it clear you have worthy opinions on this area. I have myself not given the same proof beyond “trust me bro” statements. But it all falls flat with how it’s presented and how you interact with others opinions. This is a genuine critical flaw, no matter why it shows up. And you have all the tools to be quite the charming character, rather than what has been seen here, which makes it even more frustrating to observe.
Edit: I will not answer this thread further. Feel no need to defend yourself. I place no harsh judgement anyways, only a harsh analysis. Don’t expect to sway my or anyone elses opinion by what you deem logical arguement for why or why not my analysis is true or false. Even your best attempt would be proof of nothing in public eyes. If anything the opposite of what would be desired. How you show up hence forth in other threads (and daily life, which can be said nothing about) is the only metric worth judging you on.
To add some closure to this thread, I’ll make it one of my goals to come back and finish the job I started (play page rework) after I finish my Go learning platform. I need it to reach 9 dan myself. And I’ll do it without complaining next time. I complained so much about the codebase mainly because I felt time was running out for me to pay the bills and contribute to my family’s finances. My VSCode extensions and a few more months of practice on frontend coding should make the job much more manageable for me next time.
This is also possible because I did some thinking about my project’s long-term goals and realized that my students don’t actually need a Go server. I can teach a lot through tsumego alone, and in fact most of my time studying Go this month has been doing tsumego without playing any live games.
note: I think some of the confusion comes from me saying one time that I would ask anoek for payment for my work, but what i meant by that was at most a small commission fee to buy me an extra month or two of time to finish my own project. I don’t want to hurt OGS’ finances if at all possible. If I finish my own project first, I’ll be worry-free and willing to do the work for free.
I do think this thread and the linked threads contain a lot of useful ideas and feedback for OGS. You just have to filter out the arguments in between.
Especially the idea by someone to enhance the User Onboarding Experience (even though I’m sure that too has been uttered somewhere else before) was a good one I think.
Not sure if that solves the root cause of this. The fight had been going on already before this thread started. Also it might be a good place to gather all the design feedback.
I felt the need to give some pushback because of the strong nature of his attacks. Now some people seem to follow me in my criticism which isn’t what I wanted either. Now it feels like we are ganging up on him and that’s not good.
IMO this could have probably been avoided if a community mod would have took swift action when all of this started a week ago. I even found the exact moment where it went south (the comment in the screenshot NOT because of the screenshot):
That’s the moment where he completely threw away all guard rails. Which happened 7 days ago. Before this the conversation was actually going somewhat smoothly. Not sure what exactly derailed the conversation but whatever it was someone tasked with moderation should have probably stepped in right then and there.
Back in time trohde was always pretty good with managing things like that. Now that trohde has other battles to fight it seems that there is a vacuum in that area.
I think it might make sense to talk about how to come to design decisions between us many “armchair designers”. I think we should explain the rational behind our proposals more thoroughly including usability and accessibility considerations, links to design articles or popular example implementations that show the benefit of the design, and maybe an idea on how the design will develop/integrate with the long term design vision of the platform.
Other ideas are:
I’ve been thinking about the recent comments made about the UI/UX… would it be appropriate for me to essentially go through OGS, and write up a list of suggestions/ ideas for smaller alterations that could be made… with the understanding that these suggestions aren’t a priority when put next to developmental issues that take precedence.
One of us armchair designers has furthermore sneaked into the dev chat to circumvent the public forum discussion and instill his design bias directly to the developers. I personally do not approve of this approach, and think we should find another way to make progress regarding the UI/UX design.
That is totally unfair.
I said publically “if you are genuinely interested in actually helping, let me know and we can loop you in”.
And that’s what happened.
From what I’ve seen the OGS community members have always been “genuinely interested” in “actually helping” (of course depending on the case sometimes more, sometimes less) with feature and design ideas.
But no matter how “genuinely interested” and how “actually helping” the people were there was always discourse and debate over functionality, looks and viewpoints.
What benefit for the community, or even the volunteer developers, is it to take this discourse away from the forum and encourage people to put their own design ideas closer to the developers in the hope to get them implemented?
I don’t understand this approach to be honest.
“Actually helping” was an unfortunate shorthand phrase I used when I meant “actually helping by doing work towards outcomes”.
Ideas do help, and implying they are not “actually helping” was a mistake of expression by me.
Apologies for that.
The benefit is in getting things done.
Most design contributors are clear that they do not want to contribute doing. That is what this whole thread spiralled around.
It’s great to have ideas discussed here in the forum - I can’t see that changing.
When it comes time to doing and helping people actually do stuff , a different kind of discussion is needed, and that’s what dev chat is for.
Your characterisation of it a a place where "a designer sneaked into the dev chat to circumvent the public forum discussion and instill his design bias directly to the developers " is vile.
That is one way of putting it 
Or: … “to get in touch with the Dev team directly and ask how they can help out.”
Wait we’re supposed to help out? I just hang around for the psyops
