Having a solution that makes sense (as close as possible to a solution anyway, or at least make some effort to that direction) for online tournaments would surely boost Go’s reach.
Since nobody important seems to care enough to do so, I have the sneaking suspicion that all that big talk about “how can we make Go more popular” is just lip service and the “niche hobby exclusive club” fits what most really want, but don’t admit because it’s not a good look.
Hey, how about all of those other online tournaments on OGS, even starting from before covid??
Aren’t those managing just fine without video recording to prevent cheating?
Have there been important tournaments with prizes on OGS before COVID?
I think it’s the distinction between “important tournaments” where there are “IRL/real” ranking points at stake and other “tournaments” where it “only” affects server ranks…
Yes, such as the title tournaments. Those are quite high profile and winners get special recognition for winning those. There’s no reason to say that cheating is impossible there or that there’s no motivation for that happening. Why not require video recording for those as well?
If prizes are such a motivating factor behind cheating, perhaps prizes should be omitted for these virtual tournaments put on by go associations.
I’m playing devil’s advocate, of course, but my point is, if one argues that video recording is a necessary anti-cheat measure for some online tournaments, why not demand it for others as well?
But participants in title tournaments don’t register with their real names, and don’t get money prizes. Or did I misunderstand something?
So, does that remove the motivation to cheat? Seems like cheating should not be a problem at all on OGS then.
Maybe those real life tournaments should remove the prizes and have players be anonymous then?
On KGS there have been regular EGF/RGF-rated tournaments with prizes (boards/stones) before AIs ruined everything. I don’t think important tournaments were ever particularly online. Except maybe for pandanet championships?
Then AIs ruined everything and online was going to extinct until it was saved by covid.
I guess before AI cheating wasn’t a big problem because you needed strong accomplice.
So, now that AI has ruined everything, what do you think about requiring video recording for the OGS title tournaments?
Not needed because no one cares about them. If someone cheated and won, it doesn’t really matter. It’s like any other game on OGS.
Well, I would say that people do care about the OGS title tournaments and that it does matter if someone is cheating. I believe the moderators and tournament organizers would even take action against cheaters (such as by disqualifying them and even banning them from the site), rather than simply letting them continue cheating.
Of course, I think that we all understand this.
So, perhaps you are intentionally making a seemingly absurd statement contrary to this, as a satirical remark with a similar motivation as my devil’s advocate argument? Or am I mistaken?
Same goes for any other game played on OGS. If moderators catch them, they ban them.
What I’m saying is that OGS title tournaments are of the same importance as other rated games on OGS.
Championships organized by federations are more important, and they require measures to ensure fair play.
The more important tournament is, the more effort we’re ready to put in. For example, IRL pro tournaments at this point use metal detectors so players won’t sneak in phones. But you wouldn’t use this for your club games.
In some real life unimportant tournaments without prizes, no anti cheating measures are necessary.
You can’t be anonymous in national championships, or in international tournaments in which you are the representative of your country.
If you want to attract high dan players in tournaments like this one, money prizes are necessary.
That said it’s hard to believe that no one cheats in these OGS title tournaments. At least one person is about 8 ranks weaker IRL than on OGS. I know that correspondence go is a different game than live go but still…
I don’t think that depreciating tournaments is the way to go to reduce cheating. It’s nice to have tournaments on one side and casual games/study on the other.
One of my friend had strong motivation to win because if he didn’t he won’t get his airplane ticket to go back.
OGS ranks are all over the place (wrt other servers and Go associations). Nearly everyone got bumped up a few ranks with the rating change, I think more so in the lower ranks, I think I was bumped up at least 2. Not to mention that even winning a lot of your games in the last year at IRL tournaments would barely bump you up a whole or half a rank because the class of the tournaments only allow for 0.25, 0.5 or at best 0.75 the usual rating differences with the tournament online.
I think it’ll take a long time for things to settle, need far more in person tournaments unless large numbers of people declare new ranks at say EGF. Also there’s a bunch of people possibly the only rank they have is their OGS one, and there’s a good chance registering at that rank puts you a bit higher, unless you’re in a high enough dan rank where they’re supposed to align with EGF.
Then don’t forget that some people just don’t play regularly enough on OGS too.
I think I’ve at least 5 ranks difference between my EGF and OGS ranks atm.
If it were nearly as practical to offer a deterrent for cheating in them as it is for non-correspondence games then you might have a weak leg to stand on.
Why do you find it so meaningful that people believe that all tournaments aren’t the same?
Sure, you are probably improving and your EGF rank is lagging behind. I understand what you mean since I have 4 ranks difference between my EGF and OGS ranks. About the case I mentioned earlier, I have reasons to believe that his EGF rank (before the pandemic) was accurate. The difference between his pre-covid EGF rank and his current OGS rank exceeds 8 stones.
Note that I am not accusing anyone, that person may be much stronger at correspondence games than at live games, so I won’t release too many details publicly. If I’ve already said too much, please tell me and I’ll remove this post.
Once again they situation devolves into “yeah but the cheaters, also the pros”.
Keep sheltering the organizers from doing anything on their own, see how that goes.
Not to say people don’t cheat these days and maybe I am unusual in the effort I put into and hence increase in strength in correspondence, but when I was EGF 3d I was old OGS 8d (which is more in new ranks) and beat Dinerstein 3p / 7d EGF in correspondence here. That was back in 2013 so you can trust me when I say I didn’t cheat with AI from the future.