Playing "Sino-Tibetan formations" ("1-3-5s")

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The word “runt” refers to the smallest/weakest animal of a litter, if there is such one that is significantly different than the rest. See Runt - Wikipedia

“Runty” is the adjective form of the concept, which may be broadly used to mean small/weak.

Note that it is considered derogatory to apply terms like “runt” or “runty” to people.


Like Jon Snow’s direwolf cub in the first season of Game of Thrones (the first book of ASoIaF).

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OK I may look rigid but I just imagine myself being a Vietnamese goplayer and I learn that
1 I am supposed to play an opening which is not especially popular here
2 finally I learn that people think like this because my neighbor is at the north
3 i’m supposed to explain this each time I’ll meet a go player

I dunno, call it the cave under the river, or the lost archipelago or the fly on the papaya, whatever…


? I don’t play American Football because I’m American; it’s not even my favorite football to watch. I don’t think you’re giving people from Vietnam enough credit if you think they’ll feel pressured to play a certain opening because of the name.

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I didn’t say I’ll be pressured to play that opening, it’s a bit extreme. And there are some historic reason to call American football American football .Well I always thought so, maybe I’m wrong on that?

Since I’m not aware of any “mainstream Chinese systems” thread, I’ll link this 2018 discussion Why doesn't the low Chinese show up against the 3-4? in here.

My OGS Team League game against @jlt , in the Sungacha Variation of the Manchurian ((7) P16)

It’s called Part One but there is no Part Two.

Also linking gennan’s classic video:

Cho Chikun playing the low Chinese:

A new video from Yoonyoung:

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Samraku declining, or at least deferring, the Manchurian in the OGS Team League.

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The fushigi fuseki, inspired in 2004 by the Manchuran and Upper Manchurian.

This is not technically a Sino-Tibetan formation since there’s no komoku, but it’s similar enough to get a place in here.


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Small L19 discussion from 2018 on Chinese theory

I was reading the first edition of the Sydney Go Journal and I came across these interesting comments from 2006, on a contemporary 4d amateur game.

David Bofinger: White 6 – Mistake! You were doing well with mirror go; now you’re going to lose! Someone who knows 4-7 approaches to 3-4 may like to tell us about Black’s choices here.

David Mitchell: White 6 – this is not a popular move with professionals today [he then contrasts it to the “modern” keima approach on the outside of the top right] … White 6 does not construct anything

On Waltheri, (6) – in this whole board position – first appears in 1982 as an invention of Rin Kaiho and is played until 2004, after which it dropped out making these comments understandable.

However, in 2007, the year after this edition was published, (6) suddenly regained professional popularity and appears to have been treated with at least some level of respect until 2012.

With a white nirensei, (6) again seems to have been relegated in 2012, although it still crops up in Korea from time to time.

I imagine that any professional of 2006, and even today, would have laughed at Bofinger for suggesting that (6) is a losing move. An example of mid dan zealotry, I think.


Here are some instances, from the exact whole-board position, in which very strong players used the “old” and “losing” (6) in exceptionally high-level games.

  • Zhang Wei vs Cho Hunhyun, 2006, LG Cup
  • Huang Yizhong vs Cho Hunhyun, 2007, Samsung Cup
  • Lee Changho vs Cho Chikun 2008, Ing Cup
  • Takao Shinji vs Cho U, 2012, Honinbo

With a white nirensei on the board, the list is much more extensive.

A Thorough Analysis of the Chinese Opening by Feng Yun 9p, SGF lecture published through the AGA, 2021

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This is mentioned in Reducing Territorial Frameworks [1988] (by Fujisawa Hideyuki) and occurs in several games of mainly Kajiwara Takeo.

To be specific, Waltheri has the right-side formation in Kajiwara vs Yamabe Toshiro ('76), Sakata ('76), Takemiya ('77), and Kato ('77), as well as in a Chinese game from '78.

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bugcat vs 7k, win by resignation after nine moves

The Manchurian was far too strong for him!

At the end I said “Five in a row, I win!”

@Clossius1 Does a win like this count for the WSC?

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Sorry for the bump. I posted about the Fushigi Fuseki but then realised that I’d already done that a year ago.

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