But first, I’d like to get feedback on “the right” time control for ladders, and whether we can/should align it somehow with the default time control for tournaments.
Opinion: Ladders and tournaments should have the same default
I’d like to align the default time control for ladders and tournaments.
Why?
When you configure “handicap” and “rules” for a group’s ladders, that also updates the group’s default tournament settings to match. E.g., if a group uses “AGA” rules in their ladders, then “create tournament” in that group defaults to “AGA” in the rules field.
It’d be great to have “time control” settings work the same way. If a group has some particular preference for time control in its ladders (e.g., fast correspondence), then “create tournament” in that group should default to the same time control.
Why do I need feedback?
Tournaments and ladders have different defaults right now, so at least one of those would have to change.
The straightforward implementation would ALSO change the time control for site-wide ladders.
Current state
Currently, there are three different default-ish correspondence Fischer settings:
3d + 1d/move, max 3d, pause on weekends: ladders
3d + 1d/move, max 7d, no pause on weekends: default for tournaments
3d + 1d/move, max 7d, pause on weekends: quick matches and custom challenges (…if you use Fischer time)
The polls
Should configuring the time control for a group’s ladder also update the default tournament settings for that group? What happens to site-wide ladders?
Yes, align time control for group defaults AND site-wide ladders
Yes, align time control for group defaults, but it’d be nice if site-wide ladders don’t change
Maybe, but only if site-wide ladders don’t change
No, don’t change anything
0voters
If we align time control for group ladders and tournaments AND site-wide ladders, then what should the (default) time control be for all three?
3d + 1d/move, max 3d, pause on weekends
3d + 1d/move, max 7d, no pause on weekends
3d + 1d/move, max 7d, pause on weekends
0voters
If we align time control for group ladders and tournaments but NOT site-wide ladders, then what should the time control be for group defaults?
I selected what I prefer most among the time choices given, but overall, I would prefer the increment to be less than one day. However, I understand that that might put out a lot of people.
these are just defaults, the proposal in any event would allow groups to make it faster or slower, right? If so, I think 1d increment is the right default, though I don’t have strong opinions between the 3 options, as they’re pretty similar, and none of them are stupid
So why would there be any connection between me modifying ladders to “let’s make everyone timeout group” ’s group ladders have any connection to sitewide ladders?
If I make my group have 1 move per hour in the ladder, what has that got to do with sitewide ladders basically?
1=2 seems fine, since the default doesn’t really matter if you’re planning to customise it, and the default is sensible for correspondence, which I think it is for site ladders.
I wouldn’t care that much about 2=3. Sometimes you want to run a live tournament in a group, sometimes a correspondence one with crazy settings etc. I don’t think the default makes any difference, and it seems weird that whenever I change a groups ladder settings it changes a wholly unconnected default of a tournament. It’s like strings that don’t need to be attached.
vv
For the first sentence yes, for the second what? What connection has that to site ladders - not clear in this poll.
If I change a groups ladder and it either updates the default tournament setting for the group, nothing should happen to the sitewide ladders.
The phrasing is very unclear.
If we align DEFAULT time control for group ladders and tournaments AND site-wide ladders, then what should the (default) time control be for all three?
^^ key word DEFAULT missing in this poll.
→ but we shouldn’t be altering sidewide ladders.
Either we set the default of groups to match the sitewide ladders or we don’t.
I think you should have an entirely separate poll if you want to change the default settings of sitewide ladders.
So I don’t like the wording of any of the polls so far, they’re unclear, and it’s not at all clear what the changes mean…
Aligning isnt such a big deal to me since we will see some variety anyway. But I do think 3d cap is a much more sensible default than 7d. Maybe we will get more tournaments that end in the same year they started!
Probably the bigger factor will be if the tournament has rounds and some people go on vacation or pause the game than the time cap though. Or if it’s round Robin for example.
For things like knockout or double elim, maybe the time cap might matter more.
But like McMahon and round Robin I do expect vacations and such to be more of a factor than storing and using some time - maybe
I remember that some time ago I looked at several tournaments (sim McMahon I think) and was surprised to see how much of a difference 3 vs 7 days cap made. Before that I assumed that only the increment would be important, but my findings told me something else.
Something that should probably also be considered, is how much impact the time cap has on overall game duration, and thus if (and how) the number of allowed league challenges per player should be adjusted if we change the time cap. If the time cap affects the game duration to a significant degree, just increasing it might slow down the league machinery, but having many active league games at once could also be undesirable due to increased volatility and the fact that they’re “forced” games.
Changing site-wide ladders would need a larger conversation
The 7d timeframe is the preferred one for tournaments to default to (although it’s close to 50/50)
As a result, I’m inclined to go with my previous plan.
DO NOT change site-wide ladders
Allow a group to configure its ladder time controls (but default to the same as site-wide ladders, as now)
DO NOT change the default time controls for tournaments in a group (DO NOT tie them to the group’s ladder time controls)
I think this plan will be easy to implement and won’t annoy anyone.
The only downside I see is that tournament organizers in time-control-opinionated groups (such as fast correspondence) still need to set time controls every time they create a new tournament. However, the clone tournament feature allows tournament organizers to avoid creating a new tournament from scratch so I don’t think this downside is too bad.
(In the future, it wouldn’t be hard to change this, and make default time controls for tournaments in a group match the group’s ladder time control settings. But for now I plan to leave it on the 7d max.)
