Poor judgement during game, advice?

Hi everyone, I’ve been playing go for a while now but as a hobby, as I suspect most people who play the game. This means that I sometimes drop it for weeks, months or years at the time, and one day I come back at it but with a lot of gaps in my knowledge (one of the reasons I almost exclusively play correspondence).

Today, I found out that I’ve also gotten much worse at judging the board. During one of my games I failed to capture a group that expanded into the middle, without profiting enough on the right side and creating my own weak, isolated group in the process. The left side of the board is a concerning moyo with nothing but two barely alive groups of mine… naturally, I resigned.

To my surprise, the computer says that I was winning, but I cannot even understand how that would look like. I was wondering if someone would be able to take a look at the game and point some of those key moments, or perhaps some tells that I can look for to have a better judgement for these things? The AI review is nice, but I honestly don’t understand the moves it suggests most of the time.

Or just talk about your experiences in similar situations, how do you handle this sinking feeling. For example, I’ve won other games by keeping on playing until my opponent made a mistake. The same has happened to me. But I don’t want to just win, I’d like to learn. Even though I don’t plan on becoming a pro anytime soon :smiley:

Thank you!

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Black’s group on the right is not safe yet. The AI review variation shows you getting more liberties for your central group, and then cutting and presumably killing it. And if black plays more conservatively to save it, you get extra moves to run into the centre and left side so bye bye black moyo there.

Try counting the game before you resign, and don’t if you are less then 30 points behind in middlegame.

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Unless you’re supra strong, you can’t always get what AI suggest. It’s another level in which humans don’t step in because of some lack of control. AI is still useful at times when you make some more obvious mistakes, those that you may be able to avoid one day. So to say, take its analysis with distance, get what you could have better managed but don’t worry when you simply can’t see where it wants to go.

Imagine that yourself is the AI, teaching a much weaker player. A lot of moves you won’t play them because they sound a bit too spiritless, or shapeless but maybe that’s not what you will point out, short of explanation. You will stop and comment on what was surely wrong and what your student may grasp more easely. It’s all about steps.

At the (strong) level you reach already, in my opinion, what is difficult is more to play consistent and meaningful moves as to get the perfect underlying intuition an AI may suggest. It’s time to weight each move cautiously, not getting caught in a fast train and wrong habits. It’s more like trust your feeling and find the moves which will make it happen as trying to get that AI feeling while overestimating the exactitude of your moves.

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Go is a long game, the board situation can evolve a lot. Unless your opponent clearly killed a big group and you don’t see any way to kill back, there is no reason to resign at move 77. Even later in the game, it is quite possible at kyu level to win a game while being 20 points behind at move 120, or vice-versa.

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Have you asked your opponent for a review right after the game? Even your opponent didn’t seem to think they were ahead (and from a lot of very aggressive moves from black, I got a feeling black might be feeling behind in early mid-game)

From the whole board POV, up to move 24 in the opening, your strategy seemed to be taking the corners/territory first while your opponent tried to take the influence on the UL, and build something from the bottom. And black very actively went to the UR and you also seemed to realize it and instead of solidly taking larger corners or sides, chose to accept black’s cut and extend to the center for a fight. Everything seemed to be going according to your plan, when you counter-attacked the cut-off black stones with Q11, and then you tried to make a living for your center group.

Even after tried to escape with the black stones in the upper right corner and you took the black stones to connect the center group, the whole board was still going as your fuseki plan and mid-game fighting direction - take the territory, cut off the invading/attacking stones in two. Black saved the upper side groups by running toward the UL, but as the cost of leaving the right side black group hanging.

I am curious when did you start to feel you were behind? When you simply defend the upper side (which by the way are both alive and not weak, black’s push doesn’t make them weak, in fact helping your groups to live, but leaves a pretty big yose around D19, the difference is like two groups live with about 12 points, and connect live of at least 18 to 20+ points, they helped black connect on the outside, but doesn’t reduce or threaten your groups much). I feel at move 70, you were still following your original plan and trying to isolate black’s left side, and from your description, I believe that’s why you chose to push deep at tengen instead of connecting your stones. Hence, the question you need to ask yourself, if everything was going according to your plan, at which point do you feel you are lacking in execution or judgment?

From POV of the final position or even just a few moves before at move 70. You essentially achieved your original plan you take the corners with UR and LR at least 30 pts with the right side still having the potential to grow. The upper side and UL although small, but around the 10+ to 20 range depending on yose while you have 3 extra captives (4 if you take the stone at move 78), hence you have about 50 pts with potential. And your opponent even if giving all the upper center up to line 12, they are at best 20+ to 25, and the bottom even if all account for black up to the 3rd line are about 30 points, Hence territory evaluation-wise, it is definitely still up in the air (and literally depend on if you can live or connect your center group and erase black’s potential in the air).

If it is a question of whether you are not comfortable enough to make a living in the air with sente? Then you need to work on how to fix isolated groups and perhaps even play high-handicap (>5) games just to practice how to make a living or cut off fighting on the outside toward the center. If it is the part where you feel you don’t have a good enough whole board judgment regarding estimation, then try to replay dan level or even pro games and try to evaluate their territory and positions on your own, and see if your estimated potential matches what those games later evolved into.

And realistically there is no quick path to boost your confidence, and there are always players who are more pessimistic and those who are more optimistic. And ironically most pessimistic players tend to like fighting a lot. If you are a territory player and still pessimistic, then you definitely need to play more aggressively. Learn how to use your early advantage to push through your opponent’s outside influence or how to prevent them from forming in the first place.

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Thank you all!

I suppose I should be a little more tenacious and keep trying even when it seems futile (from my own perspective). This was one of those games where I didn’t feel like I played very well, and just wanted to start over.

At around move 40, when I started to see that neither of black’s groups were going to be captured (again, my own perspective) while I was left with a dangling group getting attacked with nowhere to run. It’s exactly like you say, I didn’t want to just connect my groups because I was under the impression that it would’ve allowed Black to get away unpunished.

I wouldn’t necessarily say that I am an aggressive player, but I do struggle with timings in defending weak groups of mine, or breaking through my opponent’s weaknesses. I think I will try to play more aggressively for a while and see how that turns out, I could definitely use some practice with that.

Thank you all for your inputs, I’ll keep this all in mind. Cheers!

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Maybe this book from a long time ago can help you with your positional judgement.

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Thanks! I’ve never read any books on go, maybe this is a good one to start with.

I would not recommend it as a 4k’s first book.

I wonder which version this translation is based on. Nie wrote a lot of books mostly for his Go school (so a lot of them are just with his name, but not necessarily written by him). And for Go school teaching materials, they don’t always explain variations in detail or include answers.

(If this is based on 聶衛平揭秘圍棋大局觀, then likely not suitable for sdk level (it’s for dan level players), unless you have a teacher to guide you through them.

Nevermind the go content being too advanced, that book starts with 50 pages of Nie’s biography and communist propaganda. So not exactly a good impression for a first go book.

In my book there is a 30 page introduction. Read it about 30 years ago, can’t remember if it is communist propaganda.

Could be 30, the 50 was from memory and feeling it went on a while.

(I do still like the book, but it’s dan-level, and tough stylistically for a first go book).

I don’t think that reading books on positional judgement will help OP one bit to overcome their issue. I think it’s more a matter of psychological tenacity than a matter of go knowledge: coping with situations where things didn’t turn out as you had hoped/expected.

As long as the game is not completely lost, don’t give up just yet. See it as a challenge to exert yourself a bit harder and fight that uphill battle! You can also learn from that.

I think that sort of attitude is an important aspect of the mindset of stronger players.

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Agree with gennan. That mental strength is probably the biggest difference between me and Andrew Kay who are otherwise pretty similar strength and why he kept winning British championships and I kept losing them.

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From what I’ve seen from the Ing Cup finals this year, I think it’s also the reason why Ichiriki Ryo won 3-0. If he had given up when things seemed to go bad for him, he might not have won the title.

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What books do you think are good for a SDK player? I would really like to read something about go, at least to see if it is for me. I wouldn’t mind it being more about the players, the history either, so long there’s some game play material to go with it as well.

Thank you all for your advice!

Otake’s Opening Thoey Made Easy (a bit easy for a 4k, but if you’ve never read books you might have missed theory that book-reading 10ks know, and it’s a nice gentle start in digestible chunks)
Kageyama’s Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go (classic, fun writing style)
Akira/Davies Attack and Defence (best book for SDKs to move to dan, and relevant here)
Yilun Yang’s Fundamental Principles of Go
Tournament Go 1992 (game commentaries and player info)
John Fairbairn’s books on Go Seigen or others eg Kamakura, Final Summit (ditto, with extra history, cultural context)

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Mastering the basics series, especially the later four volumes

But honestly, I think you need reviews of your games with your opponents. I checked several of your games and older games, and you had a fairly good sense of the opening and directions, but you need to form your own “system” and ideas about your “comfort zones”. Analyze the positions and openings you feel you can handle, and focus on them, use https://ps.waltheri.net/ to find pro games with similar openings. At a certain point, you need to stop just mimicking and have your own “voice” about a game (like you see a position you will say, this is for me and their followups, and when it is not, you can come up with plans to handle them)

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There is quite a big step between a 1k and a 9k.

Anyway, most go books in English are aimed at sdk level so you have plenty of choices.

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