Proposal: Allow provisional players in automatic site-wide tournaments

The automatic site-wide tournaments are a great way to find games with humans. They are not rank-limited. But, currently, they do not allow in “provisional players” (new users whose ranks are not yet established).

I propose that the site changes those tournaments to allow provisional players. New users sometimes struggle to find games, and this would be an excellent opportunity. Anecdotally, I’ve come across new users in the chat for other tournaments, asking if they’re welcome, because they’ve been struggling to find games anywhere. (The answer was “yes”, but the automatic site-wide tournaments are easier to find!)

I can’t really think of a downside, but maybe others have concerns? Or, can anyone remember what the original reasoning was?

(This came up in the proposal to introduce Beginner/Intermediate/Advanced streams for new users, but it seems like a separate issue…)


downside: provisional players will often be very short-term players, so more matches will end in timeout.


Are we talking Live or Correspondence tournaments? I guess both, but the timeout issue shouldn’t be an issue for Live tourneys

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I was imagining live, since that could be a great way to find opponents and establish a rank quickly.

Timeouts are already a huge issue there; it’s so bad that I doubt that the [?] players would be notably worse.

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The provisional players do indeed create a “notably worse” problem in correspondence rengo. The large majority of them join and play no moves, or only a few moves, and then time out. They are the ruination of many games.

Whether this would generalize to tournaments, I don’t know.

[?] players might timeout (= not show up) more often than regular players. In live tournaments this is annoying, except when time settings are short and/or board size is small.

The other thing is that you have a choice of the pairing type as well as the tournament system in general tournaments

I assume McMahon goes off points but maybe within players with the same points you have a choice of like slide and slaughter and so on.

I don’t know how the subsequent pairings would make a difference in single or double elimination, unless it makes a difference for byes or something, presumably it’s nothing major if anything at all.

Maybe the Live Swiss tournaments?

But it’s not clear does strength mean rank or performance - maybe again it’s to do with pairing people that have the same Swiss score - you could do slide slaughter random and so on.

I’m just trying to think of the most chaotic it could be.

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Yes, but we should be addressing this in other ways like putting up popup notifications or huge banners redirecting players to games in progress.

There used to be a feature where you had to be in the “lobby” prior to a live tournament, but I think that doesn’t work anymore. As far as I know you can be completely offline and still get assigned a game.


I totally agree with your idea. Tournaments should be more open to new players. But the tournaments open to partial ratings are not what you ask? For example:

And it will start together with the next year… JOIN IT TOO, PEOPLE! AND INVITE EVERYBODY!

BEFORE TODAY, I NEVER JOINED A TOURNAMENT IN OGS BEFORE SIMPLY BECAUSE ALL OF THEM HAD SIMPLY STUPID FAST RULES, AND NO OPTION! And I hate games finished by time! But eventually I cannot play daily, or even more than one move per day, and this is not necessarily something that will not be long (more than a week is not that hard!). For most games, at least a move per day should be played, even if the opponent can only play her move in the next day, and myself in the day after that. But this is normal when we play with people from time zones all around the world! Or moves can be exchanged in the day! … Today, I found some tournaments I will POSSIBLY be able to enjoy all games until they finish normally (NOT BY TIME!).

There should be other better ways to find a game as playing in a tournament. Not all [?] are beginners but still some are. Not the best place to help and teach.
I may look a bit conservative but i like to separate experimenting (fun/teaching) and validating through competitive play (tournament).

I would even suggest thay the games you play in a tournament should bring you (or lose) more points as other rated games (2x?).

Just need a few games, even on 9x9 to get your ranking and to have something to put in the challenge of a tournament.
A special welcoming tournament accepting newcomers could be another idea.


You mean this begins when the “Through The Years” tournament ends? :smiley:

I mean, I’ll join (I love slow games!), but there’s a slight chance that I’ll be dead by then.

I don’t agrre with this proposition for several reasons :slight_smile:

  • Provisional players are sometimes “old” players who want to begin a new account, and are not
  • Sandbaggers would be happy to play as provisional players
  • If players want quickly a rank, they can play with bots. I’m sure they will have a rank within less than a day.

Why would a sandbagger want to enter a tournament as a provisional player? And why would anyone care if they do? Ranks don’t matter much for the ASTs.

Oh, are we talking about live or correspondence? I was thinking mostly about live.

:thinking::thinking::thinking: No. I assume the tournament can start whenever the director wants, with the number of subscribed players being anything from 4 to 100.

The starting date being set years in the future is just to break it from starting before the director or the participants may want, just to also invite that special friend, without any unnecessary stress to “join it fast or the opportunity will be lost!”, that could exist. We can just talk about it, if such situation exists.

The limit to take care, in the tournament I suggest, is the number of players, which cannot be as big as in the example you showed me. It is for 100 people, at most. So, come join us! I hope we and others can gather enough participants to make the tournament start “a bit” before the planned date… :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

PEOPLE OF THIS THREAD: I am pretty inexperienced in OGS. I may not know several known characteristics of how the server works. So, I am learning. If you notice any specific lack of knowledge I have, please, forgive eventual mistakes for it, and teach me the information, complete and with all possible details. if you have the patience. A specific reference to read to that subject is good too. I will be really thankful! :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

Is wanting a new account something bad?

Sandbaggers can be manually removed from a tournament, if they are discovered, right?

Playing with a robot is not good. I do not want to do it, although today, after having practically stopped playing for 3 to 5 years. I want to be able to talk, to discuss game situations, maybe even laugh about something, related to the game, to my “updated” game skills, or not about them or any related subject!

Hi, both.

Well, I see no reason to admit provisional players to the automatic correspondence tournaments. They can just wait a few days until they get a rank then sign up for the next one.


Why do you think that the Through The Years tournament will take less than 2976 years to end?


From the tournament page (as @Atorrante already mentioned):



Looking through the last dozen or so ASTW tournaments I won a trophy in, all blitz, I found 1 no-show by a dan, 7 by SDK’s and 11 by DDK’s

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