Question about a simple variation of Mi's Flying Knives

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Diagram 1: A simple joseki.

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Question 1: If white 16 = N4 instead of R2, is white dead?

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Question 2: if black 17 = N4 instead of N5, what’s gonna happen?

Source: AI定式篇:点三三(下)之芈氏飞刀


Thanks for the link. Honestly these kind of fighting josekis are a bit depriming, gives me doubt if i am really a weiqi player.


Without spending time to calculate, I can only answer question 2: White will still play P2, and black will have a cutting point at N5.

Edit: at least that’s my guess.

  1. I don’t think white dies, seems like if black R2 then white S5 connects and black has weaknesses to worry about on the outside. It will be another fight, way too complicated for me!
  2. The reasoning here is probably that after N4 P2, black still owes a move at N5. So by extending solidly instead (as in the first diagram), black can take sente.

If you can’t find a nice result for black, that’s a clue why descent of 13 is usually kosumi at p2 instead. Then r2 is making nicer shape, plus in question 1 shape you are safely jumping one line further to n2 instead of o2 so you have more liberties and are harder to enclose safely.


Q1. After black R2, if white connects at S5, black can live in the corner and give up the S7 stone. Sequence: R2, S5, S3, R7, Q7, R8, O7, S8, O2
The three white stones on the left are not settled while the black group has a better shape, so I think it’s good for black.


Just to clarify: this variation is one of the easy ones for Mi-YuTing joseki.