Redstone at Board Game Arena

I find it interesting. I check for updates every day.
Kerry has described it as “beautiful”, so you have at least two fans.

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I’ve been thinking about going through some Go life and death problems to see how they change with Redstone. Maybe it will throw up some interesting positions.

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A similar puzzle to a previous one Redstone at Board Game Arena - #12 by shinuito

It could be a bit too easy for some people, but if it’s your first time seeing it, it might be fun :slight_smile:

Black to capture the white central stones

Summary

Just one move is needed to capture, D2 and the stones can’t be saved.

Either player can choose to play the capturing move of E3 to remove the stones from the board

It came from this game position, where White as a newer Redstone player might not have recognised this as a tactic, answering C3 with F2.

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One example that comes to mind which is similar to the diagram labelled “Redstone group with two eyes” at Redstone - THE NEW ABSTRACT GAMES is

here some of the standard killing sequences for this white group won’t work in Redstone I believe.

Summary

Normally one would reduce the eyespace with hanes and then play the key point

but in redstone white captures one of the hanes to make another eye :slight_smile:

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Because the endgame is probably going to be tricky to understand fully. Here’s some warm-up puzzles that only involve two groups.

Puzzle 1

Puzzle 1

Black loses no matter who goes first

Puzzle 2

Puzzle 2

Black loses no matter who goes first

What do puzzle 1 and 2 seem to have in common?

?

White can aim to make the position “symmetric”. That is symmetric in the sense of having the same number of one and two point eyespaces as Black, while still being the second player to move in that “symmetric” game position.

Puzzle 3

Puzzle 3

First player to play wins. The odd number of neutral points being important. Second player would win if there was an even number left!

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I was playing on boardgamearena and found this weird green point on my goban:

Any idea what that is? The last played move is white’s D1.

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There was a notification on BGA

At the request of Shinuito, I installed a last move indicator in Redstone. It’s a lovely green (00a400) spot, exactly like in Cephalopod. It was 10px in diameter, but I had to squint to see it on a cellphone, so I changed it to 20px. Last move indicator is On by default, but you can turn it off in the menu. I don’t know if this will work in your current games. Current games are showing the indicator in the lower left corner, A1. Maybe you have to make a move to get it going, or maybe you have to start a new game.

I think when you play your next move it will move to being on that point though. That was the case for me.

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Awesome! A last move indicator was indeed sorely missed.

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Here’s a slightly harder endgame puzzle.

Who wins with White or Black to play first? (click image to go to board to edit it yourself).

image

Summary

White plays first -- White wins

White has a good few choices of first moves, three in their own eyespace and four in Blacks. Reducing your own group to one eye first is bad, so E5 is out.

Lets look at B5 instead: this has the benefit of giving white two one point eyes and forcing any further play into Black’s area.

Black needs to play in the four point eyespace next to keep two eyes, and this will make a three point eyespace in a bent “triangle” shape. White should then play at the middle point to stop Black creating three eyes.

Black then needs to atari the one stone, but White can capture it! So Black loses.


Black plays first -- White wins

If Black tries to play in the 2 point eyespace of white, e.g. at C5, then white can capture and the result is the same as if White played first in this position. White still has two eyes, but there’s just a redstone swapped for one of White’s stones.

Instead Black needs to play in their own area - which will make a three point eyespace. White needs to stop Black turning this into three eyes, or you can check that White will lose. Now Black can again play in White’s two point eye, but White captures directly and again the position turns back into one where White played first so Black loses (compare to the white moves first diagrams above

So Black again has to instead play in their own area. However White again captures their own stone, and once again Black playing in the two point eyespace doesn’t work so Black loses.

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These puzzles are excellent. Many thanks!

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While I am trying thinking of some more endgame puzzles here’s some more tactics. There’s three puzzles inspired from a game where none of those variations happened :slight_smile:

The setup (from a game) and some ordinary go tactics for these puzzles

Setup

Sometimes I play a bit slack when I’m not sure if my opponent is a go player and it can lead to some interesting and bad situations for myself :slight_smile: I’m in a predicament as White. Black player this nice looking clamping move.

I try to run out and then I’ll see if I can find some redstone related tactics.

We get to this situation which will be one of the first puzzles, but I don’t play that way in the puzzle

and instead try to connect underneath with the above move but that shouldn’t actually work as long as Black finds this nice hane on the first line below.

If Black doesn’t hane but descends to the first line that’ll be the third puzzle.

Puzzle 1

White to play, what can White do in Redstone in the following position?

Summary

White can push and then throw in to set up a squeeze

If Black captures then White Atari and starts to squeeze Black against the redstone

If black connects instead white again ataris and drives black toward the edge

In both cases Black gets squeezed by the redstone and the edge of the board

and is captured, or at least with part of the group.

Puzzle 2

Black actually resigned in this position in the game, but Black can capture the white stones. How?

Summary

Black can throw in on the first line to set up a connect and die!

(White could try something like D6 as a trick, but likely A6 capture will be ok)

If white captures the throw in with a redstone and Black ataris

White can’t connect the stones

Puzzle 3

In the setup above I mention a nice move Black could do to capture the white stones earlier in normal Go. Normally this descend to the first line would be an ok alternative, but White can capture.

Hint: The first puzzle should help with this solution.

Summary

This is the same tactic from problem 1, push in and then throw in to set up a squeeze :slight_smile:

(It’s just slightly interesting when a normally equivalent go move doesn’t work out)

After this throw in/atari the puzzle reverts to problem 1 solution where Black tries to descend to the first line (assuming Black doesn’t give up the middle stones)

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It’s been a little while. One thing that has come up in some of my recent games is Redstone cutting tactics.

It can be advantageous in theory to cut the opponent into two groups, even separately living groups as there’s a kind of effective group tax, in that both groups need two eyes minimum to stay on the board, so four for two groups as opposed to just two for a single living group.

A key part of the tactic then is throwing in (sacrificing) a stone that when ultimately captured will put a redstone in a cutting position.

Here’s an interesting game position I think (and a board link to Vsotveps tool to play with

I tend to try out lots of ideas and somewhat forcing sequences to see how the opponent responds and see if I can come up with some tactics.

In this case after extending with the two stones White cuts at G8, and Black needs to capture

Now White throws in at E7. The idea is that the capture of E7 puts a redstone at F7 cutting the black groups now or later on. White also threatens to capture their own stone with double Atari so Black chose to try G9 but then White extends to H8 with atari. Black captures, but it blocks off the 1-1 point in doing so, and now white throws in again!

So Blacks four stones are pretty much captured. One redstone capture will be an Atari on these stones and resolving the Atari must be another (simultaneous) capture. The other capture gives Black one eye but Ataris the first line stone and black is still cut.

Much later in it also came up to cut the rest of the stones off also

White tried some shenanigans in Blacks area with B8 and D9, and then whites D9 stone is again helping to cut Black.

Black can try capturing it but white can sacrifice two stones or just play the capture of F7 forcing a shortage of liberties.

The two stone sacrifice looks like

and white can play either D9 or E9 to cut.

Hopefully that’s interesting, and feel free to add your own ideas, on this or other games or positions etc :slight_smile:

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Since this last game position was kind of interesting, here’s a variation where Black tries H8 instead of G9.

It leads naturally onto the idea of some in-game Redstone seki which hasn’t come up too much yet :slight_smile:

So after H8 white extends to G9, and if Black tries F9, then White captures their stone with Atari and setting up a simultaneous capture of the main Black stones

On the other hand, Black can extend to H9 instead to make an eye. Again white captures with double atari and there’s a simultaneous capture of two white and one black stone.

Afterward white can play back at the point G8 to make an eye and a temporary seki (until someone needs to fill in).


A previous post with an in game seki

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Another endgame puzzle. This wouldn’t be an actual game given the small board, but after capturing a group of stones one might have the option of choosing to turn one’s eyespace into a 1 point + 3 point one or two 2 point ones, and I was somewhat curious which beats which in a race :slight_smile:

Who wins with Black to play and White to play?

Summary

Playing at the centre of the three point eyespace seems to be key for both players. The position is unsettled.

White plays first at the centre of three stones and wins

If black tries to capture the one stone, white can capture their own stone, then if Black plays in a two point eyespace, White just captures the black stone. The same in the other two point eyespace.

It’s the same reversing the move orders. If Black doesn’t try to capture the stone, and plays in the two point eyespaces, white captures the black stones and Black still has to come back first to atari the one white stone.

Black plays first at the centre of three stones and wins

Black has three eyes, white plays in one of the two point eyes and black can play in the other. White captures the Black stone, but can fill in one of the three eyes and be ahead, with white having to fill one of their two eyes first.

so then here’s a follow on endgame problem.

image

Black to play and win

Summary

From the last problem if Black chooses to make a 1 point and 3 point eyespace, Black will lose as white goes first.

A very simple way to win is to make two 2 point eyespaces like white and then just copy their moves (play in your own two point space if they do, play in the opponents if they do, capture if they do)

image

Interestingly though, Black also has the option of making a single four point eyespace in couple of ways, but they don’t necessarily work.

image

If black makes the bent four shape, then White plays inside. If Black plays in whites two point eye spaces white captures so Black is the first to return to the four point eyespace. When Black Ataris the one stone, White captures their own stone and Black is in trouble.

Similarly if Black makes the Tetris Z shape, white can play the same strategy.

image

So if Black plays in their own area they need to be careful, considering both their eye shape and the opponents.

The other option is to not play in your own territory at all, which I believe works for Black in this situation with some care taken not to lose two eyes, to make two two point eyes if needed, and to avoid falling victim to a certain tesuji at the 1-2 point.

image

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Here’s another real game endgame puzzle:

White to play

Link to a board from Vsotvep tool

Solution:

Summary

White should play A1, and when Black is forced to capture the four stones, White can play at A2 to make an eye, and then when almost surrounded, white can play into A1 again to remove an eye from the group.

In pictures




Edit: I feel like I miscounted eyes (so maybe below are equivalent options) and have updated the text.

Alternate diagrams

Edit: I think it works, maybe I miscounted originally. Interestingly the bent 4 doesn’t look like it works.

Black captures and white should play A3 to reduce the eyespace.

Black can try a throw in at A2 and then atari with A4


But it looks like after white captures their own stone its 5 eyes to 5 and black to play.

Alternative: Black can also try atari from the outside

If Black plays A4 white goes down to A2 and when Black captures white can throw in to remove an eye like in the solution.

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