I just wrote a comment in the general chat and for some reason that I don’t quite understand, Sofia immediately closed the topic.
She pointed out that Russia is dropping bombs on Ukraine. I KNOW that. The point is that it is still happening because America WANTS it to continue, because selling weapons is big business, and taking Europe’s oil business away from Russia is also big business.
I want the fighting in Ukraine to stop. I want Ukrainians to stop dying. The Ukrainian flag on the logo implies we support America’s proxy war against Russia and the continued fighting and death.
Here, I have an idea that will help avoid the implication the site supports America continuing the profit-war in Ukraine: put a peace symbol over the blue/yellow logo.
I KNOW Ukrainians are being bombed and dying; I want it to end. Anyone who is not demanding America immediately negotiate an end to the fighting is on the other side.
Let’s be on the right side of history. It’s time to stop supporting American empire.
When you care so much about the Ukrainians that you make it all about Biden.
We know Americans (their politics, in case someone needs that clarification for ELI5) are the bane of everyone’s existence more or less at this point in history, but enough is enough with this obsession.
Part of respecting Ukraine as a sovereign nation is acknowledging their own reality of the war, and I can assure you people and problems continue existing if you remove America from the equation. At least show them the minimum respect of saying they fight their own war, for their own freedom.
Also, fun fact, European leaders haven’t been half-sad about moving around their factory production and having an excuse to raise their weapon budgets.
I have a suggestion for everyone who has zoomed in 500% and only sees Biden in this war. Zoom out a bit, all US presidents are war criminals.
Zoom out a bit more, there’s tons of support to the flailing mud giant that is the US to keep on going, because status quo is beneficial for involved parties in all meridians and parallels.
(Zoom out a little bit more… American empire… LOL. They wish.)
Come back when you demand blocking all Chinese pros until China stops the horrors against the Uyghurs. Or better not, I wouldn’t support that to be honest.
I’m sorry for everyone who dies in this war. Russian soldiers are also people.
Everyone who is supporting Ukraine, go on. Please, if you can, find it in your heart to care about everyone who is affected because they are victims of circumstances.
I mean, you could try talking about the war to be about the war, or you can make it about America again…
War is happening in Ukraine because Putin wants Soviet Russia back. Biden has little to do with that.
Thinking that this war can only stop if America start negotiating is delusion of grandeur. Perhaps start considering that the rest of the world also exists.
The one who must end it is the invader, not the onlooker!
Asking the USA to end a war in Europe is a) giving the USA way too much credit and b) giving the USA a (yet another one) legitimate foothold in the region.
“Biden must end the war”. How? A freedom operation, Gulf style?
Thanks but no, thanks, I’ll pass.
One person on this thread wants the killing to stop. The others think “feelings” and “respect” are more important.
It’s disgusting. I must say, I was really surprised to find out that Europeans DENY the power the US wields over them rather than resisting it. It’s amazing. And Ukrainians continue to die. But how dare I imply America has interests and power. Americans and all other citizens of the world share one common bond: ALL of us are the victims of American empire. The fact you thought my message was bragging about American influence is insane. And Ukrainians continue to die. Add a peace sign to the Ukraine icon? Never!
You’re not implying America has interests and power, you’re implying that the war in Ukraine is somehow orchestrated by the Biden administration, and that only America is capable of stopping the war.
It’s somehow offensive to both Ukraine and Russia, that you don’t seem to believe either of them have enough reason to fight each other, and that it all hinges on this idea of an “American empire”.
Sure, the US wields some power over Europe, as does Europe over the US, or China, or basically any economically significant country or agglomeration of states over any other. The idea that American politics is so important that it somehow is the only factor at play in the current Ukraine crisis is just preposterous. Your politics don’t matter that much, and honestly, as far as US involvement in wars abroad is concerned it doesn’t even matter which silly next politician you’re electing either, they’re all atrocious.
In response to me pointing out that some people care more about feelings than the deaths of innocent Ukrainians, Lys actually responded “How rude.”
Does anything more need to be said? I suggest we side with peace and saving lives rather than the feelings of armchair army generals.
I don’t think the emoticon does anything. But I do think if we’re going to make pointless, meaningless gestures, we should at least have an emoticon that does not imply support for the American proxy war that is resulting in the deaths of thousands of Ukrainians.
THEN, Lys also said, “why don’t you ask nicely”! At no point has anyone agreed with me that the issue is saving lives; the ONLY responses I’ve gotten are “but my feelings”! It is grotesque. And Ukrainians continue to die.
I am pretty sure that almost everyone who agrees with the blue and yellow logo wants peace in Ukraine, and I see no indication that this logo supports US imperialism. There are no stars and stripes on it. On the other hand…
You could just accuse me of missing your last message, but you know, accusing me of trolling is really smart also.
Obviously there’s very little we can do to actually affect the outcome. The first thing to do is acknowledge that America is evil and would never, has never done any military action (except perhaps WWII) for humanitarian reasons. There is ALWAYS some ulterior motive–oil, trade, military dominance, etc. (Notice ALL of those are implicated in Ukraine.)
So start by understanding that anything America says is a lie. If the American military industrial complex supports selling arms to Ukraine, there has to be a reason for it other than helping the people of Ukraine.
In this case, of course, Biden et al couldn’t give a flying eff about the lives of the Ukrainian people. There are several things America stands to get out of this proxy war. (1) arms sales. (2) NATO expansion (leading to more arms sales and more influence over countries that have so far resisted NATO). (3) If America gets Europe to sanction Russian oil (notice the sanctions were the “strongest ever” and yet it took MONTHS to even stop oil sales?! What was that about this being a humanitarian response? Absurd.), it will only increase ties to American/Saudi oil. (4) The further diminishment of Russian power will make it easier for America to do what it wants elsewhere (Yemen, Syria, Ukraine, etc.).
So, in answer to your question: the LEAST we can do is refuse to go along with American prolongation of the war. Demand that America demand an immediate end to the war (which it is NOT doing now). Blame America for the escalation of the war. Make the message loud and clear that we, the citizens of the world, do NOT support American imperialism, no matter what humanitarian narrative they paint the story with.
Demand immediate peace now. Not “support of the Ukrainians,” which implies support of American involvement. PEACE now.
Lys, you’re missing the point. If we’re going to engage in utterly meaningless gestures in the face of suffering and death (e.g., changing the colors on an icon to the colors of the flag of the people who are dying), then let’s at least make sure the gesture doesn’t support the thing that is contributing to the suffering.
How should that peace look like? Wars don’t just end. What happens in Mariupol, what happens to prisoners? What happens to deported families? Etc? What happens to Ukranian territory?
I don’t really want to get involved but I can’t help but notice that if you replace the word “America” with “Russia” in paras 2 and 5 it still works. And the other paragraphs wouldn’t need much editing if you were to do the same there.
I find it odd to be so vocal about America when it seems quite plain that if Russia ceased fighting and withdrew from Ukraine then Ukrainians would stop dying. And that would be the case whether or not weapons were sold to Ukraine from anywhere.
We’re having a conversation about what to do with the OGS icon, and by extension what each of us should do regarding the Ukraine war. I answered that question.
You respond with a question so completely irrelevant to what you and I should be doing, it would be like playing your opening move in a GO game on W25.
According to the logic of your response, “if you don’t have answers to these questions, then we should continue supporting the killing.”
The best thing about GO is that it is completely devoid of emotion. The regretful thing about GO is that somehow that logic does not extend to other areas of the player’s life.
Anyway, you said I was trolling, I answered you at length, and your response was irrelevant nonsense. Sounds like a good time to stop talking, doesn’t it?
My message is: do not let our meaningless gestures support American empire. Make our meaningless gestures at least be in the direction of saving lives.
