Sugggestion for less time control options

[Mulsiphix1]

@user5555

I just think it would make things a little easier and shift the focus on playing instead of decision making on things that don’t matter much. Like having one operating system instead of 20, or one messenger instead of 10 and then everybody chooses a different one and all actually lose because of those choices.

Thank goodness Windows isn’t the only OS, Norton isn’t the only anti-virus suite, McDonalds ins’t the only fast food chain, Burt’s Taco Stand the only “resturant”, Albertson’s the only grocery store, Dove the only bar of soap, etc… Choice is good. Do you feel this way about food and the color spectrum as well? I never implied that you were stupid; only that you hadn’t bothered to learn about the time settings

@user5555

I noticed that I do get a little confused about the time control options, and also I hesitate to accept games with time controls I never use. Honestly I don’t even understand most of the options, I only ever use Byoyomi.

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I was only suggesting that because now there are sometimes games I won’t accept because of the time settings.

[_KoBa]

Lets remove all other options, but leave 3d+1d/move max 3d fischer, then at least the correspondence players (whom are actually the majority of OGS) would stay happy.

EDIT: nvm, on a second thought, we should get even more possible options, like the “hourglass” timing ^___^

[user5555]

@Mulsiphix1

Thank goodness Windows isn’t the only OS, Norton isn’t the only anti-virus suite, McDonalds ins’t the only fast food chain, Burt’s Taco Stand the only “resturant”, Albertson’s the only grocery store, Dove the only bar of soap, etc… Choice is good. Do you feel this way about food and the color spectrum as well? I never implied that you were stupid; only that you hadn’t bothered to learn about the time settings

Sure. But if it comes to messengers, currencies, streets, public transport systems, anything that operates under a network effect: meaning, its use increases with the amount of people / places using it / connecting it. Then it is better to have less options than more. If you have n competing street providers, the usefulness decreases with 1 / n. The best scenario is 1 street provider, open for all people and connecting all destinations. You would win very little by a competing system of streets, but lose a lot. A country needs 1 currency connecting the whole economy. You could run it on several competing currencies, and some countries do (the ones that do not work so well). So there you have the choice of currency, but this kind of choice actually limits what you can do. It’s not so drastic with the puny time control issue. But it also divides the “market”.

But I see this has already turned into the never ending, purely opinion driven, not accomplishing anything kind of discussion that’s an excellent waste of time if that’s what one wants.

[opuss]

@user5555

I won’t press this matter any more - well I never did, just made a suggestion.

I think that you raised a valid point, and probably the best solution would be to improve the existing Custom Game dialog.

Perhaps we could consider moving the important options that a beginner would typically need into the top section? This only really needs to include:

1. Board Size (9x9, 13x13, 19x19, Custom)
2. Game Speed (Blitz, Live, Correspondence)
3. Handicap (None, Automatic, Custom)
4. Rank Restriction (Even, ±1, ±2, ±3, Custom)

All the other existing options could be available below.

Just a thought.

[Samraku]

@user5555

Sure. But if it comes to messengers, currencies, streets, public transport systems, anything that operates under a network effect: meaning, its use increases with the amount of people / places using it / connecting it. Then it is better to have less options than more. If you have n competing street providers, the usefulness decreases with 1 / n. The best scenario is 1 street provider, open for all people and connecting all destinations. You would win very little by a competing system of streets, but lose a lot. A country needs 1 currency connecting the whole economy. You could run it on several competing currencies, and some countries do (the ones that do not work so well). So there you have the choice of currency, but this kind of choice actually limits what you can do. It’s not so drastic with the puny time control issue. But it also divides the “market”.

Markets like that are called “Natural Monopolies” and they’re an example of market failure. For some of these natural monopolies we either have the government administrate it (roads, money), or heavily regulate it while technically being separate (utilities). (this is to say nothing as to whether or not this is the correct solution to these problems, only that they are clearly being recognized as problems) For others we have the anti-trust laws to force some competition into the situation by preventing them from tying too many things into their natural monopoly (thus limiting the impact of the natural monopoly), or by forcing them to split up.

But regardless of the solution chosen, the constant is that a natural monopoly is very profitable for the holder of it, but detrimental to consumers and to the development of a good product. Competition breeds innovation, and natural monopolies naturally stifle any potential upstart competitors. “Dividing the Market” is a good thing. It means allowing a free market to once again operate as intended instead of being caught on a record scratch by a natural monopoly.

EDIT: for the record, I am generally very pro free-market and anti govt. intervention. Despite this I believe that the above is a valid exception because the benefits so greatly outweigh the harms.

[theexternvoid]

What’s the bug in simple?

[BHydden]

it is very common to experience display issues, many users have reported timing out when the clock says something like 4-8s remaining

[theexternvoid]

I prefer simple, but I only do correspondence games. So a bug where it’s off a few seconds wouldn’t affect that. we should keep simple because it’s… simple! Hence why I prefer it.

[BHydden]

I think there may be other bugs with the time control, but I do not have a complete list on me.

For the exact same functionality, it is advised that in place of, say, 1 day per move simple time, you should use:
0 main time + 1 x 1 period of 1 day Byo-Yomi
or
1 day + 1 day up to a max of 1 day Fischer

[flovo]

iirc pausing the game (either by pause button or weekend pause) had caused problems with simple timer in the past as well (even for correspondence games)

[meili_yinhua]

we could set up a system where there are only a few options
fischer,
canadian byo-yomi
and hourglass.

but with canadian byo-yomi, you can get byo-yomi by setting overtime to be over 1 stone, absolute by setting 0 sec periods, and simple by setting 0 main time.

Or alternatively an “advanced options” button so that if we wanna do something out of the ordinary it’s still there. (and also so people like me can do wacky stuff like have a main time followed by a fischer time period)

but yeah automatic color is a bit weird to me outside of handi games, especially since it appears that w might have the advantage, so giving it to the stronger player defeats the point of the tradition, and honestly we kinda expect nigiri anyway.

But really my biggest complaint is that there’s a weird gap between 4 hrs live and 1 day corr for byo-yomi. Some of us might wanna do a meijin-style 8hr game for the hell of it (with a pause for sealed move given via Malkovich), and I’m not entirely sure why it’s not a fillable with slots of hours/minutes/seconds to begin with (although I can understand if it’s hard to work out bugs with that)

But I suppose that last thing will only be considered after rengo is finally implemented

[flovo]

@mekriff

but with canadian byo-yomi, you can get byo-yomi by setting overtime to be over 1 stone

No, this doesn’t work. Byo-Yomi has serveral 1 stone periodes, Canadian has always only 1 periode, but multiple stones per periode.

@mekriff

and hourglass.

If hourglass were a time option on OGS, it would be the first one I would say we can get rid of.

[meili_yinhua]

ok, maybe I was oversimplifying with canadian, but you get the drift: set main, set number of periods, set length of periods, set number of stones per period

[Mulsiphix1]

@mekriff

Or alternatively an “advanced options” button so that if we wanna do something out of the ordinary it’s still there.

If it genuinely is confusing people, simplify the interface and have advanced options for those who use them. I could totally get behind this approach. Nice mekriff