The Conquest of Go - A Videogame featuring Go Gameplay

That’s pretty cool, the puzzle site. Thanks for getting back about it.

Well in terms of just trying to find life and death problems for groups of stones, does katago have a built in indicator of the life and death status of groups? (I thought I read that in one of the articles, as well as it having something for ladders, and estimating score and that).

If it does then maybe something like

  1. Find moves in the game that are mistakes above X points. (Maybe like 10 point plus mistakes being like losing 5 or so stones)

  2. Check if the status of groups of stones change before the mistake and after the ai’s next move. ( I don’t know if it’s like a binary 1 for alive 0 for dead for each stone or - again if it exists)

  3. Then for a group of stones where the status changes, draw a rectangle encompassing the group of stones, and slowly move the rectangle outward until some condition is met. (It could be say until the top move is within the rectangle - that might not work if say it’s likely a group is dead but there’s a ko and winning would lose just as many or more points, so the ai move is probably a tenuki of sorts; it could also just be dieing in gote and that loses a lot of points → but that probably wouldn’t change the status of a group then?)

  4. Build a tree of local variations and use that sgf as a puzzle. I guess the best scores in the tree up to some threshold count as correct and ones with big enough score losses are marked incorrect. Classifying the puzzle like “White to make a ko” probably has to be done manually though?

I think I was reading this or more likely and earlier edition [1902.10565] Accelerating Self-Play Learning in Go and probably thinking of the inputs Section where it’s says something about pass alive areas.

I’m probably not adding much though with this list sadly :stuck_out_tongue:

Yes it does have ownership predictions. Like everything, it’s statistical (-1 white to +1 black)
Your idea of point loss + move ownership changing is interesting! It could also filter on the situation being close to a corner, and both the move made and the best move being ‘near’ the dying stones.

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While trying to solve a puzzle with a 9x9 board that looks like a multi-color Go, Miscellaneous trivia, riddles, puzzles and other games - #46 by Vsotvep
It got me thinking that why not also make the campaign map also a type of “watered down Go”, instead of adding up all the resource of the territories in possession, each territory also exerts “influence” to the neighboring territory that is yet to be claimed (blank ones), and tax part of its resources and added into the “claimed territory resource pool”.

I feel this would be a very intuitive way to teach not just the concept of go rules, but also strategies on a larger scale. And the territories of smaller board size can be placed on the “handicap points” near the corner, medium one on the side, and then the largest one in between. And it doesn’t even need to be based on a grid-like strategy map, the principle of starting with a near corner but not on the edge (Get less influence), and not to close to the center (can get “surrounded” further down the road) is always the same.

Those are interesting ideas for the AI generated tsumego and influence-based map and resources.

Update 0.5.0 has been released and focuses on improving the quick play functionality such as adding difficulty presets and allowing to immediately rematch without the need to reload. Other various improvements were made to the game as a whole which can be found in the update link.

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Nice update, I just got a question about review though, is it only possible to spend resources while still in a battle to show AI suggested sequences?

I don’t seem to find a way to do it after the game is finished and in the review phase, it only shows the blunder moves and AI’s recommended next move spots. instead of variations.

On the campaign map, after clicking on the record for a previous match, there should be a button Battle Summary panel called Review. Once you click that, the game record will load, allowing you to step through the game. Buttons at the top right will enable (may take a few seconds if switching board sizes) to toggle move analysis, territory, as well as score and win rate graphs. I plan to eventually combine review and AI recommendation review into the same thing to remove some of the confusion.

Thanks for your time to reply my question, there sure are some good features, well hidden…

Really felt they could have been integrated into the mechanics somehow, some kind of reward system, not just expenditures.

I wonder what players without any concept of “reviewing” a game would feel about the feedback they get. Scrolling through the gameplay sequence only seeing their winning percentage and scores kept dropping might not be very informative I suspect.

Maybe we need some different introduction to beginners’ lessons incorporated into high handicap game for them to actually learn something. Maybe a kind of reverse komi and high handicap where they don’t have to win the territory but to learn how to live locally effectively, and how to invade.

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I remember there being some variations show when you review your biggest mistakes in a game with AI. I thought when you click the recommended move you could go forward (use the forward navigation buttons) to see the recommendation of the ai?

I have to try the game again with all the updates, I was enjoying it anyway.

From what I can tell, there is a list of 3 blunders showed after the review process is finished, and when I click one of them, it will prompt me to either find the best move myself to gain more resources or just show the best move recommended by AI. But it only shows comparably how many potential points this move will result in it and the rank of the move (if I find it myself and it’s not the best AI recommended move).

There are no follow-ups variations after that best move (sometimes I found it has but has to manually played the other side to continue if it is not the best move). I don’t feel a beginner would know what to do about it, and why the “best move” is the best move without examples and variations to show it works, especially if that move is a tesuji move to kill the opponent group (or save the group) where the following sequence has to be exactly right.

@shinuito is referring to simply using the forward and backward navigation buttons located at the bottom left, or alternatively using the keyboard commands (see Settings > Playback Settings) in order to step through the sequence that follows the recommended move. These controls are used in reviews, tutorials, and AI recommendation reviews.

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OK, finally get the function… it’s not very intuitive, I’d assume it would automatically playout the sequence for me. Although it is kind’s odd, since most of the time, there wouldn’t be just one sequence, and players couldn’t try other moves themselves to see why they have to follow that particular sequence. I feel they are kinda important in a review process.

BTW, I think there is something wrong (or I simply don’t get how they work) with the find the best move during battle, sometimes when I click that, and already spending the resources, but there is nothing happening, the same goes to the show sequences option, spend the resources, but nothing is showing…

My bad, I missed your message last week. If you do run into issues needing a more prompt response, the Steam Discussion Board is where I am most active.

On the topic of the find moves ability in the campaign, it could be that the AI is currently calculating the moves and variations and just has not shown them yet. This can take longer on lower powered systems. You can adjust this by going into Settings > AI Settings, and lowering the Minimum Move Visits field to something low, like 10. While it will display the moves more quickly. This is set by default a bit higher to give the AI time to calculate and offer suggestions that it’s a bit more confident in, and also weed out low playout/visits suggestions. Give this a try and see if that works better for you. If that’s not making any change, please make a post on the Steam Discussion Board with any additional details and I’ll see what I can do to help. Thanks.

In the future I plan to change this to instead filter results to a maximum number of suggestions, which would be able to display more quickly and would also avoid displaying too many suggestions that a low Minimum Move Visits value would result in.

Version 0.6.0 is now live. The highlights are some performance improvements for the campaign map, time settings for the campaign, a new traditional board theme, better time management for the hybrid AI, and darker text throughout the game. The full log can be viewed at link below.

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I was trying to be active on the Steam forums at the start, but hadn’t really a chance to check on the game since before Christmas.

Already the updates seem to be quite nice that I’ve noticed :slight_smile:

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Version 0.7.0 is now live. Overall, the update is more focused on things behind the scenes and bug fixes, rather than new content.

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Version 0.9.0 is now live, which introduces the campaign resource market and empire resources. The market allows players to exchange a specific resource for another they may need more of. Empire resources are resources that are automatically collected after matches based on the regions that were previously conquered which will continue to earn resources over time. Additional uses for resources will be coming in the future.

Version 0.8.0 was also released since my last post, with just a few updates such as being able to more easily manage campaign save files and also optionally require confirmation of passing moves.

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@trohde just created a new topic called 3rd party OGS apps- maybe this one fits in there too?

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it was actually @anoek who created it (thanks!), but yes, it was my suggestion.

@wolfeystudios, I’m not quite sure whether I should move this whole thread to 3rd Party Apps for OGS as your app is not only an OGS client, but maybe you have thoughts about it?

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I’m fine with it being moved over to the new category. This thread fits a couple different categories, but it probably makes the most sense for the apps to be grouped together. Feel free to update it when you get a chance. Thanks.

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OK, done :slight_smile:

<edit>
Oh, and thx for the suggestion, @benjito :slight_smile:
</edit>

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