The ruleset of the game should be easier to see

That was just to say that endgane is a bit more complex. Not for a difference in the score result between the rules.
If you don’t forget that you have to maximize your territory to the last useful move then playing in your territory will not cost you points in chinese rule and it’s relevant information, like in blitz as suggested by the OP.

It only loses you a point if there are an odd number of dame remaining. Also, you certainly need to know the ruleset (and sometimes handicap) to count the score correctly in endgame. The Chinese and Japanese scores can easily differ by a point or two, which might affect your choices if it’s close.

I agree that it should be visible.

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Custom board backgrounds would be a great way to allow this for players who care:

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It loses you a point anyways, but with an even number of dame you can swap around the last dame that you fill with a move inside your territory. In the end it has no effect on the game, but the move inside your territory does cost you a point at the moment that you make it: you can just make it up before the game ends. And naturally, making two moves inside your territory will then cost you two points, regardless of dame.

In any case, I want to dispel the annoying and wrong myth that playing in your own territory costs more in territory counting than in area counting, since in the vast majority of people who claim this, it’s not about the very last move of the game, but about creating too much thickness during midgame.

If you have the time to count the game, you have the time to click on the game info and check the ruleset.

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For players who have experience of OGS all this has small meaning if no at all.

For players with less experience of the server (not meaning beginners only) you may play a blitz, finish the dame and ask yourself if you have to take away these dead stones in your territories or not. Then checking which ruleset under limited time can become a hassle, even more if you don’t know where the info is. It’s not just about opening a tab, reading, closing all this with some scrolling, it’s about losing focus on the game, searching and thinking on something else.

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Well, even if it’s of small importance, it’s still a basic property of the game that can affect your play and even the legality of moves. I’d be happy to see the ruleset and handicap in the player boxes, along with all that other information like captures and komi that’s only relevant if you have time to count the score:

image

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I really like this particular “design” proposal where just a three-letter rules indicator (something like JAP/KOR/CHI/AGA/ING/NZL) and (optionally) an h2/h3… indicator for handicap is placed in a very similar place than Komi currently is.

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Very nice indeed but we could need to have komi and handicap at same time sometimes?

Does komi ever go to black??

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No, reverse komi is shown by -85 to white rather than +85 to black, so that spot is always free:
image

I think @Groin probably thought that the rules were put where the komi usually is.

I don’t have strong feelings on if the rules should be shown or not, but I think the design proposal looks pretty good. The only strange thing is that that placement kind of implies that the rules apply to the black player in particular.

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No i had the worry that you could have komi and handicap at same time in a game a bit like on IGS but that doesn’t exist on OGS so no worry on this now.

A minimalist alternative could be to hide the captures under Chinese rules, since they aren’t at all relevant to your score. I bet that would drive everyone crazy though!

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You can have that on OGS:
image

And there would be no problem displaying this just like @Feijoa suggested, since handicap and komi are shown in two different places.

They are relevant since most people (including Chinese professionals) count territory + captures during the game, regardless of the scoring method.

GoQuest did not originally show captures since all games use Chinese rules, but they added it eventually, I would assume because lots of people requested it :slight_smile:

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I like the proposed design - looks neat. Ruleset and handicap are essential information and there might not be time to check game info, e.g. if you take white in a blitz game and opponent starts quickly so no time to check before game starts. Sure, ruleset making a difference is rare… but it’s not impossible. I vote to add it to Black’s player card as suggested. :+1::smiley:

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At online-go.com, it would be great if the Ruleset was listed somewhere when playing, as a reminder (for example, maybe put “Japanese” or “Chinese” just underneath the Komi reminder near White’s score)

While I understand we should see the rules when accepting the game… if playing several games in a day (some Chinese and some Japanese) one can easily forget which setting it is, and especially true if playing a long game. It’s a pet peeve of mine to keep having to click Info.

Yes, I could just fill all dame no matter what, but don’t want to waste my opponent’s time if it’s Japanese rules.

And actually, I would prefer to have this requested text showing Komi and Ruleset even in Zen mode.

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I moved your post to this topic where there has been some recent discussion about this idea! :slight_smile:

Personally, I think having this info in Zen mode is going too far, but as a rules nerd I like the idea of the rules being visible in the normal view.

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Technically, under Japanese rules, one should fill all of the dame that one can, in order to prevent non-seki groups from being counted as seki (which would nullify their territory). Of course, players often take the informal shortcut of not filling in the dame, when using Japanese rules.

Under various area scoring rules (e.g., Chinese, AGA, etc.), it is possible to leave an even number of inconsequential dame unfilled without changing the outcome. Inconsequential means that the filling these won’t require any further defensive moves/captures and all that is left in the game is to alternatingly fill them.

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There is a bit of consensus on this layout

@Fantactic: Do you like it too?

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I love it! This is exactly what I was referring to. Is this just a “mockup” and not actually in place right now?

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If it’s not too late for a suggestion, if the plan is to use 2-3 letter abbreviations, to use the standard ISO abbreviations:

  • Japan/Japanese: JP/JPN
  • China/Chinese: CN/CHN
  • Korea/Korean: KR/KOR
  • New Zealand: NZ/NZL

Probably for ING and AGA, those are more appropriate than country abbreviations

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