Too many cheats

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1

What a sad state of affairs… I’d like to complain about the placement of the resign button and the side panel getting on the way, or how it is possible for people to accept two (non-correspondence) games simultaneously and then ignore one of them completely.

But no. It’s going to be about the cheating, isn’t it? It’s often said that this or that are ruining this or that server. Well, in this case it’s true. How? Simple, this is not fun any more. I don’t want to train AI, I don’t want to keep meeting the same SDK players who happen to have a good answer to any move I make in a fight despite having played an abysmal opening.

It’s a pity, really. This was never (contrary to advertisement) the best Go server, but it’s always been the best looking, and you could see the will and the work put in to improve it. But now even the players who aren’t cheating have turned into overplayers and cowards (I generalise, of course). As I said, no longer fun. I would like to be constructive, but I don’t know how. As it is in the real world, the technology outpaces the law, and you can’t expect us to report AI use in a way that will satisfy your standards of proof, just as it strives to become undetectable. If you’re not able and willing to police it, then the law is meaningless.

Forgive the rant. I do hope it gets better, but I don’t see it happening without some radical action.

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OGS is really trying to get rid of cheaters. First step is to report games that you suspect.

AI cheating is common to all go servers and this is not prone to get resolved any soon.

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It’s important to me that these things happen. I’ve already suggested to them an AI robot that detects cheating and stops the game on the spot, telling them who cheated in the game. They shouldn’t have taken this idea.

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OGS is currently in the process of getting some new detection tools, and also faster systems for handling the reports we receive. Hang tight!

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That’s not so easy as you think.

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This is a thought-provoking comment. It got me reflecting on what it is that generates the fun (for me) as a Go newbie. Sorry if I get a little long-winded, but here I go:

TL/DR: It’s helpful to reflect on just what you enjoy about playing Go on the OGS. Understanding the source of your fun is key.

= = = = = = =

Long version: I lose virtually every ranked game I play here on OGS. As a result, my rating is headed toward TDK (triple-digit kyu :wink: ) But I’m having loads of fun.

FYI, when I play (9x9) against the Katago model (on BadukAI Android) applying severe limitations on its pondering time and depth, I’ve got close to a 50/50 chance of winning. And when I play on ‘Go Pro’ (another Android app) at 18 or 15 kyu settings I almost always win with either color stone. (Perhaps this suggests my OGS ratings may be understated, at least to some extent? Whatever.)

To be clear, winning is lots of fun. Losing? Less fun.

But every game I’ve played on OGS (most of which were losers for me) has provided me with an sgf file to analyze deeply. I take it off line and go move by move using deep AI evaluation to see where I played well and where I messed up. I identify areas of my gameplay that most need the work, follow a plan to work on those areas, etc.

The resulting improvements are tangible. And, here’s the key: observing this in myself is a great deal of fun.

In fact, seeing myself improve is perhaps the most enjoyable part of playing Go in the first place.

I don’t love the idea of playing against a human who cheats using AI. But the truth is, besides the disappointment of watching my rating plunge lower, there’s still genuine fun to be had. It all depends on what it is that you enjoy about playing here on OGS.

A corollary thought: It’s sad to think that those who seek to boost their ratings by using AI for assistance during the game are missing out on the real joy of improving their playing skills and vision for the game. Repeatedly confirming that an AI bot is better than they are at playing this game strikes me as a rather pointless waste of their time (and self respect). :man_shrugging:

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So something a computer engineer started doing is this is important for a start something

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You are no more a beginner if you can do that.

Give up the 9x9, enjoy the 19x19. Check your fundamentals with books or videos (and then when reviewing) and apply them in your games.

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You need to tell us which robot you have in mind, that knows how to detect cheating while the game is proceeding.

Otherwise this suggestion is no better than suggesting that we have a magic fairy which zaps cheaters with her wand.

I wonder if there is a translation problem? I’ve described directly to you in particular that we are working on this - improved detection, improved automatic detection etc.

What about this don’t you understand? What better solutions do you know of that we could use? Because if they are available, we will put them in place…

What evidence do you have that we are not policing it? Actually, I personally have handled literally thousands (I’ve counted) of AI reports, annulling and warning or suspending the users involved.

We do get many reports where AI use can’t be proven. Sadly, a lot of these are sore losers who see AI where they just lost squarely. Others are, as you say, the cheaters masking it well. What do you expect us to do? How will you respond when we assert your game is AI cheated, because someone else “thought that it smelled that way”?

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I am curious to what your experience is exactly.

Looking at your games list (of the account with the same name), you’ve played 28 games in total, and you’ve won 19 of those. It never happened that you played the same SDK. A matchup with the same players happened twice, those games timed out at the start. Which I annoying but not cheating.

If you genuinely feel the opponent is cheating, you can simply report it. It is policed. It can’t be addressed without making a report.

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Why would not knowing good opening moves entail being bad at fighting, or vice versa? Some players are better at some aspects of the game, and some players are better at others. Isn’t it possible you’ve come across players who are better at fighting than you but haven’t spent as much time looking into 9x9 openings?

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I’m just offering an idea, someone else will think about how to develop it. Take the most powerful robot on the market. It’s a robot from Senim and pay him to reduce it to a robot whose only purpose is to test games. Just for the sake of it, it’s a bad idea, but I’m sure there’s something here that a robot developer can contribute to developing another robot that only tests games in real time.

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Let’s wait another 5 years for AI technology insurance to advance. We’ll eat my idea as early as 2028-2030.

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Hopefully AI translators advance a bit by then too

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